Why Is It So

[Rottshowgirl]

Deary, deary, deary.

Please read the posts in sequence, before commenting.

Is that to much to ask?

Appreciate that you have strong opinions, but is the condescension really necessary?

[TessnSean]

I have read every post and can't quite figure out why Smacka has turned nasty. People here are talking about their own experiences so just because you had not encountered the same thing, does not mean it did not happen. I have been asked some incredibly weird things just walking a dog in the park so it is not a stretch to think it could be said anywhere else. I could not count the number of times people have said they have watched the movie Best in Show and they ask me if all dog shows and dog people are like that. In a totally mfunny sort of way, they are :D

Smacka, my dad said to me that when you are in the right, you did not need to lose your temper and when you were in the wrong, you could not afford to. We are all like minded people who love our dogs. There are a wide range of people with different levels of experience. There is no need or want for derisive comment.

[smacka]

Forgive me.

I surrender to the majority.

Dogs shows are merely beauty contests & freak shows.

How could I have been so blind for the last 25+ years.

[Trisven13]

Forgive me.

I surrender to the majority.

Dogs shows are merely beauty contests & freak shows.

How could I have been so blind for the last 25+ years.

Why the drama??? Where did I say that I THOUGHT that they were beauty contests and freak shows??? Regardless of what we may think many members of the general public perceive them as that and that is why some turn away from them. How do we go about educating them that they are more than that? I personally think that we do it by welcoming the general public into shows more, taking the time to smile as they walk past, answer their questions with honesty and good humour and (when appropriate) welcoming them to interact with our dogs. ETA - I was educated to them being more than that by being a member of DOL and reading about people's breeding & showing on here. Reading the posts of people like Diane (RIP) who lived locally, Aziah, Ceilidh, Fifi and many, many others I became interested. Spending time with my friends at Taejaan here in Albury and watching them interact with their dogs and prepare for a show fueled that interest. Attending shows and finding a couple of friendly people that I'd met before on DOL just added fuel to that fire. All those people encouraged me but when, years earlier, I attended a show without already having made some online friends it was a very different story. That IS my experience and I have heard the same from others.

And, as an aside its hard to read how your post below wasn't meant to indicate that I was posting trash talk

So you mustn't think my reply had any credibility? That's interesting.

You must agree with the antiquated, beauty pageant, freak show comments? That's interesting also.

Glad you enjoy the scene though. Which is really interesting, if the above is true.

Many decades of dedicated, ethical people have made it possible for you enjoy the benefits of their dedication.

I take exception to people who don't understand or respect that dedication by posting such trash talk in a Show forum at a pure breed site.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Trisven13

[Rottshowgirl]

Gosh, that turned all drama llama

Eta: P.S. Smacka we are all on the same side, no need for flouncing off. Healthy discussion can be constructive if willing to listen to other's opinions & experiences.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Rottshowgirl

[Kym]

Also there is nothing much you can do if your dog isn't already "good enough". You can't change their conformation.

This.

I showed our new pup last year as a complete newbie for a few shows and had to have a break after that for work/study reasons (overseas conference + finishing a postgraduate degree) but had every intention of going back. Unfortunately, during that intervening time, the pup in question grew both too long and too tall (in a breed where size is an issue).

He has been looked at by somebody trusted who knows the breed and confirmed that he is simply too big. I know that I could still go and show him for the experience but I am a busy person with more than one hobby and would rather devote that time, money, and energy to working on getting him up to trialling standard in another sport such as obedience instead.

Nobody was at fault here. It's not the breeder's fault. As they said to me, it's hard to pick them. Nobody at the shows I attended were unwelcoming or unpleasant to me. I only had nice comments made to me at the shows I attended. It's just something that happens. I did my research but it didn't work out. In the distant future when I eventually get another dog, I will have another go provided I can get another show potential pup on main register.

The reality is that if you don't get lucky with the right dog (from a conformation perspective) then sticking with it isn't really an option. Just my 2c.

Edited November 8, 2011 by elevenoclockish

[TessnSean]

Forgive me.

I surrender to the majority.

Dogs shows are merely beauty contests & freak shows.

How could I have been so blind for the last 25+ years.

I am a relative newbie to dog showing but showed horses for more years than you have shown dogs . It is your type of sarcastic and derisive postings that has kept me reading rather than posting very much in the 3 years since I joined this site.

If you can be so sarcastic and unpleasant to like minded people having a conversation , I can not see how you can be so disbelieving that people can encounter such rudeness at a show to people they do not know.

[OSoSwift]

Smacka I have no idea why the attitude but NO-ONE here has said shows are beauty pagents etc, it has been said the the AVERAGE JOE BLOW thinks that. If that is the case - and yes I ahve also been told similar thing by the average public, then we need to figure out how to chage the average publics perception instead of saying what crap no-one thinks that yadda yadda.

I can tell you now I come from a country town (pop 14000) where there are three people that travel for trials etc and one travels for shows - ME!!!!!

I have been told I am weird, don't care about my dogs only about winning, why would I compete in a beauty pagent etc etc. I have been abused for having my dog entire and even moreso for saying I am going to breed a litter, when I should be saving a shelter dog. For every dog I breed a shelter dog dies and all that crap.

Luckily I have a strong personality and it is water off a ducks back and I know that I love my dogs and I show -and do obedience with them - because I enjoy it.

I am regarded as the mad dog lady and I am not fussed, but many many people think people who breed and show are strange and what is the point of a beauty contest.

So I suggest you get your head out of the sand and before you attack people who are actually on the same side as you you go out there and discover what the general public actually do think and then think of ways to counteract that.

Edited November 8, 2011 by OSoSwift

[aussielover]

Obviously most people you talk to don't know what they are talking about.

Dog shows are essentially a exhibition of prime breeding stock, the exhibition of dedicated persons blood sweat & tears.

Freak show? That would funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

Typical of the ignorant though.

And being exceptional well bred doesn't preclude dogs from excelling in other doggie activities.

Well bred pure breeds dominate agility, obedience & fly ball.

The example you related of a newbie being pointed out all the failings of his/her ''show dog'' is rubbish, it wouldn't happen unless he/she requested an honest expert assessment.

If he/she didn't ask, he/she would have never known.

If your example truly wished to be involved in the exhibition of pure breed dogs he/she would have put in those same hard yards you speak of BEFORE he/she bought a dog & turned up a show expecting to win because some uninformed relo/friend said "he's a lovely dog, you should show him" Duh

What would you consider the outcome if said relo/friend had have said ''he's a really smart dog, you should enter him in an agility trial"?

Double Duh

Many, many people have had remarkable results with their ever first "show dog".

Why? How?

Most because they did their homework & put the time in before they bought their ''show dog''.

Some, just dumb luck.

Another fallacy purveyed by the uninformed is that ''show dogs'' are all pampered pooches, kept in cotton wool & only come out on show days, where the facts are most are your average, knock about, garden variety family pets.

Albeit, very well bred garden variety, knock about family pets.

Newbies will never learn anything from just attending one or two shows & sitting mute.

If they really want to show, & really want to know, ask questions. And if they listen & absorb good advice, i'll guarantee their second show dog is better than their first, conformation wise.

The one after that....onward & upward.

Always remembering.

You get what you pay for.

Hello??? I never said I personally think dog shows are antiquated etc. I work with dog owners every day and this is what the majority of them think dog hows are. Not all, but yes, the majority don't have a favourable opinion of dog shows.

I personally think dog shows have their place and I recognise that a lot of hard work and dedication goes into breeding dogs and showing them.

However, this attitude is not shared by members of the general public and nothing is being done to win them over. Extremely defensive attitudes don't help.

And actually, in dog sports, you don't have to start out with a gifted dog to begin with to start gaining titles and becoming reasonably successful.

Any healthy dog is capable of getting lower level titles in obedience and agility with enough dedication on the handlers part imo.

Many successful agility competitors have started in the sport on recommendation of a friend.

Edited November 8, 2011 by aussielover

[smacka]

Forgive me.

I surrender to the majority.

Dogs shows are merely beauty contests & freak shows.

How could I have been so blind for the last 25+ years.

I am a relative newbie to dog showing but showed horses for more years than you have shown dogs . It is your type of sarcastic and derisive postings that has kept me reading rather than posting very much in the 3 years since I joined this site.

If you can be so sarcastic and unpleasant to like minded people having a conversation , I can not see how you can be so disbelieving that people can encounter such rudeness at a show to people they do not know.

Sceptical?

Guilty as charged.

I am somewhat more than sceptical that an exhibitor would approach & abuse an unknown member of the general public for simply quietly observing.

However, if there was a history between these people one could hardly blame the show fraternity for such an outburst, could one?

Sarcastic & unpleasant?

Opinions may vary.

[Sayly]

Wrinkle your brow and raise your eyeborows, both of them if you must, but it happened.

And I think you are the one with your head in the sand saying "no no no no no" denying there is amything wrong. Instead of blindly defendng what is a dying activity, how about admitting there are some parts that could bear changing and an image that's in desperate need of a polish and a positive spin?

For what it's worth, I spent many years involved in junior sport, firstly with a husband who was a junior football and cricket coach, then with my own four children playing and competing in football, cricket, indoor cricket, basketball and gymnastics. And never did I see or hear the nasty and childish behaviour I see and hear at dog shows. And not by the juniorr contingent either.

I played numerous sports with no issue, but the higher and more competitive it got, the bitchier it got. When I was competing with someone else for a place in a team, especially a state or Australian one, it wasn't much different to a dog show. But perhaps I was unlucky.

ETA: My brother played soccer for a local club as a junoir and the crap that went on there between parents was worse than anything I've seen at a show.

Just thinking, are entries dropping at similar rates all around Aust? Or are some states better than others? I haven't had nearly as many bad experiences as Gayle has, but I show the same breed. Does state have anything to do with it?

Edited November 8, 2011 by Lyndsay

[Sayly]

If public perception is a major factor, how can we and the kennel club go about improving it?

We can educate (or try to) the people who think it's a beauty pageant to start with.

Dogs SA does an open day and stands at the Royal purely for this reason. What else can they do, on a limited budget?

[Gayle.]

Wrinkle your brow and raise your eyeborows, both of them if you must, but it happened.

And I think you are the one with your head in the sand saying "no no no no no" denying there is amything wrong. Instead of blindly defendng what is a dying activity, how about admitting there are some parts that could bear changing and an image that's in desperate need of a polish and a positive spin?

For what it's worth, I spent many years involved in junior sport, firstly with a husband who was a junior football and cricket coach, then with my own four children playing and competing in football, cricket, indoor cricket, basketball and gymnastics. And never did I see or hear the nasty and childish behaviour I see and hear at dog shows. And not by the juniorr contingent either.

I played numerous sports with no issue, but the higher and more competitive it got, the bitchier it got. When I was competing with someone else for a place in a team, especially a state or Australian one, it wasn't much different to a dog show. But perhaps I was unlucky.

ETA: My brother played soccer for a local club as a junoir and the crap that went on there between parents was worse than anything I've seen at a show.

Just thinking, are entries dropping at similar rates all around Aust? Or are some states better than others? I haven't had nearly as many bad experiences as Gayle has, but I show the same breed. Does state have anything to do with it?

In my breed, only one and that was in SA. In general, a small handful directed at me, but I tend to watch and listen a lot and the things I see and hear just make my hair curl. Ringside tantrums, nasty comments etc abound. But I expect that's always been the case, I honestly don't think that's why numbers are dropping.

Growing up, I had parents involved in various things such as the local greyhound racing club and the golf club and I had a gutful of it then. They were just bloody feral and I now have a really tiny amount of patience for adults who act like schoolgirls, then deny they did anything wrong.

The comments on here that really make me sad are the ones from new showies and visitors to shows who complain about rudeness directed at them by dog show people, and that is absolutely uncalled for. In no way, shape or form is it ever OK to be rude or abrupt to someone showing an interest in your pastime, especially when it's conducted in a public arena. And the comments happen time and time again, so many times that really, you'd have to think that maybe there's a problem there.

[Gayle.]

If public perception is a major factor, how can we and the kennel club go about improving it?

We can educate (or try to) the people who think it's a beauty pageant to start with.

Dogs SA does an open day and stands at the Royal purely for this reason. What else can they do, on a limited budget?

Personally, I think they need to do more dog activities in areas the public go to. In some states (Vic and NSW, don't know about the others) most shows are held at specific venues that the public just don't know about, and have no reason to go to. Big Day Out for Dogs, for example, is held at KCC Park......if they want the general public to be interested, why not hold it in the city or in a suburban park where non-dog people or pet owners go. Cos they don't go to KCC Park.

I also think that the ANKC needs to employ a media person with a high profile and get them talking on TV and radio about the benefits of buying pedigree dogs. Get out and flog it, talk about good breeds for families, good breeds for working people, good breeds for sports enthusiasts, good breeds for first time owners, good breeds for agility, obedience, herding, lure coursing and any other dog activity that involves pedigree dogs. Good breeds for first time show people. And how shows work. How they are used to keep the breeds pure and honest and looking like they are supposed to.

They need to do the same as what the designer dog voices did for mongrels...they need to make pedigree dogs the preferred option.

[Sayly]

If public perception is a major factor, how can we and the kennel club go about improving it?

We can educate (or try to) the people who think it's a beauty pageant to start with.

Dogs SA does an open day and stands at the Royal purely for this reason. What else can they do, on a limited budget?

Personally, I think they need to do more dog activities in areas the public go to. In some states (Vic and NSW, don't know about the others) most shows are held at specific venues that the public just don't know about, and have no reason to go to. Big Day Out for Dogs, for example, is held at KCC Park......if they want the general public to be interested, why not hold it in the city or in a suburban park where non-dog people or pet owners go. Cos they don't go to KCC Park.

I also think that the ANKC needs to employ a media person with a high profile and get them talking on TV and radio about the benefits of buying pedigree dogs. Get out and flog it, talk about good breeds for families, good breeds for working people, good breeds for sports enthusiasts, good breeds for first time owners, good breeds for agility, obedience, herding, lure coursing and any other dog activity that involves pedigree dogs. Good breeds for first time show people. And how shows work. How they are used to keep the breeds pure and honest and looking like they are supposed to.

They need to do the same as what the designer dog voices did for mongrels...they need to make pedigree dogs the preferred option.

Do they have the money for that though? I honestly don't know what finances are like for the ANKC, and I wonder if they have enough to be able to go about that?

Dogs SA held their open day at the grounds too, but they had a good turn out and it seems to be increasing each year. It lets the public know where the grounds are, and there's no cost. Our grounds are closer to the CBD than Vic's is though.

[aussielover]

I think incorporating some kind working ability test would make it more understandable for the general public and also keep many of the breeds true to purpose. Obviously the level would not be that expected of a true working dog but basically the dog should show some instinct for what it was bred to do and display health and fitness.

The public just don't understand why certain breeds need to have certain "over-exaggerated" traits (in their view) or strange looking characteristics.

The only thing with this though is that not all breeds were designed to work. For these breeds a Canine good citizen/temperament test coupled with an endurance type test might be more suitable?

I know many showies/breeders already do this which I commend them for, but making it an actual requirement to show at a certain level or get certain titles might be an idea???

It would be nice at larger shows (eg royals) if the commentator could say a bit about the breed and then say all of the dogs here have their retrieving ability certificate or equivalent so are capable of working in their original purpose. Or for companion dogs saying that the dogs may look fragile/unfit etc but they all have their Endurance certificate which involves running 20km etc...

maybe even have a demo of pedigree dogs (only) doing the work they were intended to do?

I don't know if any of this is practical but it would go a long way in showing the general public that show dogs are also physically fit, healthy and capable of doing their job, as well as reducing the media's ability to criticize purebred breeders for breeding unhealthy dogs.

[Gayle.]

To be honest, I don't think changing the actual show is the answer....dog shows are what they are and they are the same the world over. It would be nice, however, if they were made more accessible and more "user-friendly" and understandable for visitors.

I agree it would be nice if the features of various breeds were explained or made more obvious, but not all breeds have exaggerated features (most of the gun dogs, utility dogs and herding dogs are quite "normal" looking) but I think that can come about with more and better publicity for pedigree dogs.

[TessnSean]

Forgive me.

I surrender to the majority.

Dogs shows are merely beauty contests & freak shows.

How could I have been so blind for the last 25+ years.

I am a relative newbie to dog showing but showed horses for more years than you have shown dogs . It is your type of sarcastic and derisive postings that has kept me reading rather than posting very much in the 3 years since I joined this site.

If you can be so sarcastic and unpleasant to like minded people having a conversation , I can not see how you can be so disbelieving that people can encounter such rudeness at a show to people they do not know.

Sceptical?

Guilty as charged.

I am somewhat more than sceptical that an exhibitor would approach & abuse an unknown member of the general public for simply quietly observing.

However, if there was a history between these people one could hardly blame the show fraternity for such an outburst, could one?

Sarcastic & unpleasant?

Opinions may vary.

The post of your own you quoted is not sarcastic then? Oh. So you are making a factual statement then? I think not.

Yet another one bragging that your dog show experience makes you superior. I have never encountered rudeness directed to me but I have seen many examples directed at the general public. Like the little boy playing with his toy beside the ropes at one Mildura show. The toy exhibitor wheeling her trolley past screamed at him to get out of the way. He was there first and there was no need for her to raise her voice the way she did. Little guy took off in tears.

Like the lovely elder couple from Darwin who nervously asked at Benalla show if they could just stop and look at our dogs. We invited them in to the gazebo and gave them one to hold and they proceeded to tell us how rude other exhibitors had been to them. One had told them they were to move on and not stand and look at their dogs. There would not be a single show we attend where someone from the general public has not talked to us about exhibitor rudeness.

I suggest you get out of your tent and talk to people who wont be feathering your nest. Give up the networking at just one show and find out how non dog people are treated by many.

[Trisven13]

I think that when people acknowledge that there may be a negative perception by a lot of the public they will then go out of their way to balance that. I mentioned above that I think it is really important that we welcome the general public (GP) to our shows - that doesn't need to be in any formal way but just a smile can make the world of difference. How many times have we read on here that people don't want the GP at the shows but, for a lot of people,if they don't come to the shows to watch they're not going to know about many breeds, know where and who to purchase purebred dogs from (using a GP term of purebred) and from there MAYBE develop an interest in showing and breeding themselves.

Dog showing is a great sport for families to be involved in with their dogs but we need more people to know about it. For those of you who didn't grow up in a dog showing family how did you get in to it? Is that still a way for people to get into showing and if not, why not? As I said earlier I got into dog showing, by default, by being into dog rescue and find DOL. Others are encouraged by their breeder, others have done other sports for years and showing is a sideline.

I still think that the most important thing we can do is smile, remember that it really doesn't matter what the judge did on the day and enjoy your day out with your dogs.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Trisven13

[Sayly]

I think that when people acknowledge that there may be a negative perception by a lot of the public they will then go out of their way to balance that. I mentioned above that I think it is really important that we welcome the general public (GP) to our shows - that doesn't need to be in any formal way but just a smile can make the world of difference. How many times have we read on here that people don't want the GP at the shows but, for a lot of people,if they don't come to the shows to watch they're not going to know about many breeds, know where and who to purchase purebred dogs from (using a GP term of purebred) and from there MAYBE develop an interest in showing and breeding themselves.

Dog showing is a great sport for families to be involved in with their dogs but we need more people to know about it. For those of you who didn't grow up in a dog showing family how did you get in to it? Is that still a way for people to get into showing and if not, why not? As I said earlier I got into dog showing, by default, by being into dog rescue and find DOL. Others are encouraged by their breeder, others have done other sports for years and showing is a sideline.

I still think that the most important thing we can do is smile, remember that it really doesn't matter what the judge did on the day and enjoy your day out with your dogs.

I didn't grow up in it. We had a dog from a reg breeder while I was growing up and always kept in contact with her. Fast forward to a few years ago, once said dog had passed away and we were looking for another of the same breed, we went back to the same breeder. Mum just mentioned I had always been interested in showing, and she offered us a show bitch, which we took. And then I got into handling the Aussies and now have some of my own.

I have had loads of support from people involved in both groups and people have gone out of their way to help me, and continue to do it for others.

I think it is really important that people provide help and mentorship for new people to the show ring, it made me feel like I was welcome.