Aidan3 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Clumber Spaniel also failed vet check due to bilateral ectropian and secondary conjunctivitis. What were these people thinking, putting a dog up with these problems. I am sure they would be breeding from it as well. No wonder people see registered breeders as unethical. Imagine the pain this dog was in. I have to wonder about the judges along the way also... In the first instance you should probably wonder what is fact and what is fiction ? I guess we'll all have to wait and see. I'm not expecting much truth from either side, given the complete lack of transparency in this process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) So it would appear that the UKKC have made a statement that rather than dogs be judged by a judge on the day for how it stacks up against the breed standard by a qualified judgeit will also be judged by things only a vet can pick up. Rather than educate breeders into being sure that they have to take the health and things only a vet can pick up into account as well as the championship when they select a mate for their dogs and explain this to the public - that a dog show has only ever been that - we are now on new territory.Sort of like a swimmer being disqualified because he has asthma or a runner being disqualified because he has and eye injury.Don't really think they can get out of it now either. Terrible PR for dogs shows that's for sure. Edited March 10, 2012 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emgem Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Clumber Spaniel also failed vet check due to bilateral ectropian and secondary conjunctivitis. What were these people thinking, putting a dog up with these problems. I am sure they would be breeding from it as well. No wonder people see registered breeders as unethical. Imagine the pain this dog was in. I have to wonder about the judges along the way also... In the first instance you should probably wonder what is fact and what is fiction ? I guess we'll all have to wait and see. I'm not expecting much truth from either side, given the complete lack of transparency in this process. I don't know if you google "clumber spaniel chervood snowsun" you will see photos ( including some from the breeders website) that make it pretty clear why the dog was DQed. I would call that transparent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Rather than educate breeders into being sure that they have to take the health and things only a vet can pick up into account as well as the championship when they select a mate for their dogs and explain this to the public - that a dog show has only ever been that - we are now on new territory.Sort of like a swimmer being disqualified because he has asthma or a runner being disqualified because he has and eye injury.Don't really think they can get out of it now either. Terrible PR for dogs shows that's for sure. You don't have to be a vet to hear a dog that can't breathe quietly at rest, to know what obesity is, or ectropian or entropian or excessive skinfolds. You don't have to be a vet to see a dog that can't get out of the way of its own hocks to sit easily You can see it at almost any dog show and until now no one in a position to act for change has done a damn thing about it. Breeders and exhibitors and dog shows got us to where we are... do you HONESTLY think that those who have more invested in the current breed standards and judging are the ones to lead us out? The future of purebred dogs is ON THE LINE here. If we don't want to see entire breeds banned for health reasons and extinct soon after then drastic measures are called for. I will wait for the dust to settle but God knows someone had to do something and the KC has. All I can say is that the dog fancy has been a hothouse for these issues for a bloody long time and frankly if you don't see a problem with some breed standards then chances are you are part of it. The PR generated by breeding for dogs that can't live comfortable, healthy lives is a hell of a lot worse than the PR for dog shows. After all, they are supposed to be about show casing the best examples of breeds in order to choose breeding stock for future generations. Edited March 10, 2012 by Telida Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Yep plain as the eyes on your face alright - hard to deny it . That's a lot of judges that should be booted too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Rather than educate breeders into being sure that they have to take the health and things only a vet can pick up into account as well as the championship when they select a mate for their dogs and explain this to the public - that a dog show has only ever been that - we are now on new territory.Sort of like a swimmer being disqualified because he has asthma or a runner being disqualified because he has and eye injury.Don't really think they can get out of it now either. Terrible PR for dogs shows that's for sure. You don't have to be a vet to hear a dog that can't breathe quietly at rest, to know what obesity is, or ectropian or entropian or excessive skinfolds. You don't have to be a vet to see a dog that can't get out of the way of its own hocks to sit easily You can see it at almost any dog show and until now no one in a position to act for change has done a damn thing about it. Breeders and exhibitors and dog shows got us to where we are... do you HONESTLY think that those who have more invested in the current breed standards and judging are the ones to lead us out? The future of purebred dogs is ON THE LINE here. If we don't want to see entire breeds banned for health reasons and extinct soon after then drastic measures are called for. I will wait for the dust to settle but God knows someone had to do something and the KC has. All I can say is that the dog fancy has been a hothouse for these issues for a bloody long time and frankly if you don't see a problem with some breed standards then chance are you are part of it. The PR generated by breeding for dogs that can't live comfortable, healthy lives is a hell of a lot worse than the PR for dog shows. Come on you are preaching to the converted - I just think the system they used to do it sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Come on you are preaching to the converted - I just think the system they used to do it sucks. I agree that it all seems pretty haphazard but I do believe we aren't getting the full picture.... yet. No one held a gun to the head of any exhibitor to make them show at Crufts and they went in with their eyes wide open. Of course they're upset. I'd be devastated. But I will await the aftermath before judging the system of DQing as poor. And even if it is, by the looks of things UK exhibitors had better get used to it. Edited March 10, 2012 by Telida Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Come on you are preaching to the converted - I just think the system they used to do it sucks. Perhaps as far as you are concerned she is, but there are many who still think there is no problem except one of PR created by animal rights nutters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 THat Bulldog looks very athletic infact I am quite sure I have never seen one move so freely. She does look a little fat to me but hey I am used to looking at Whippets :) I of course cannot hear the dogs breathing. If a dog has had entropian surgery there is a scar line so I am quite sure that would be picked up by a vet and they should rightfully be excluded from showing and breeding. Will go and look at the Clumber now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I'll start by saying I haven't read the thread. I will. However, fwiw, at this point I'll give my own personal opinion just on my scant knowledge of the issue. The manner in which this was handled has not done anyone, particularly the purebred world, any favours. What the hell is the matter with the purebred world. It seems it is being run by people who lack skill and foresight. Yes, there ARE BIG issues in some breeds including the one I go in to battle for but there is a way of moving forward and seeing the forest as well as the trees. Another public affairs nightmare. Another negative message sent world wide about the purebred dog and the ineptitude of those who sit in positions of power and another negative mssage about the failure of the system as it currently is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Haven't trawelled through all the posts so if this information is repeated my apologies. .... wrote...A KC steward was telling me that the Bulldog was dismissed as the vet considered that it had a breathing difficulty to severe to go into the Group. The vet is instructed to look specifically for this in the breed as well as in Pekingese. However the Peke was disqualified as when examining for over protruding eye balls the vet noticed a scratch on the eyeball. I imagine there will be a protest from the Peke club as this was not in the vet's remit and if he was going to fail a dog on that he should have checked every dog. The reason for the Chinese Crested being on the list is because, as I am to understand, most are not truly hairless and exhibitors use razors to remove unwanted hairs and this can cause "razor burn". Other exhibitors have resorted to using the hair removing cream products on the market for ladies to use. This on occasions has caused chemical burns to the skin, so the vet is checking for signs of this. Lots of stories are going to go around I think. Inevitably story lines will be mixed and exchanged also. Yes, there will be alot of "He said, she said" going on. Not to mention the distortion of "chinese whispers". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emgem Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Rather than educate breeders into being sure that they have to take the health and things only a vet can pick up into account as well as the championship when they select a mate for their dogs and explain this to the public - that a dog show has only ever been that - we are now on new territory.Sort of like a swimmer being disqualified because he has asthma or a runner being disqualified because he has and eye injury.Don't really think they can get out of it now either. Terrible PR for dogs shows that's for sure. You don't have to be a vet to hear a dog that can't breathe quietly at rest, to know what obesity is, or ectropian or entropian or excessive skinfolds. You don't have to be a vet to see a dog that can't get out of the way of its own hocks to sit easily You can see it at almost any dog show and until now no one in a position to act for change has done a damn thing about it. Breeders and exhibitors and dog shows got us to where we are... do you HONESTLY think that those who have more invested in the current breed standards and judging are the ones to lead us out? The future of purebred dogs is ON THE LINE here. If we don't want to see entire breeds banned for health reasons and extinct soon after then drastic measures are called for. I will wait for the dust to settle but God knows someone had to do something and the KC has. All I can say is that the dog fancy has been a hothouse for these issues for a bloody long time and frankly if you don't see a problem with some breed standards then chance are you are part of it. The PR generated by breeding for dogs that can't live comfortable, healthy lives is a hell of a lot worse than the PR for dog shows. Come on you are preaching to the converted - I just think the system they used to do it sucks. The trouble is they tried the carrot approach 25 years ago in 1986 when they revised breed standards and undertook an education program for judges. The end result is that 25 years later many of the breeds are more extreme than they were to begin with. Is it any wonder they felt they had to use the stick now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 Well, the Americans are having hysterics over it. Letters to the AKC demanding they never ever do this, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Yes, there ARE BIG issues in some breeds including the one I go in to battle for but there is a way of moving forward and seeing the forest as well as the trees. Another public affairs nightmare. Another negative message sent world wide about the purebred dog and the ineptitude of those who sit in positions of power and another negative mssage about the failure of the system as it currently is. What message do you think is being sent? The message I get is "we're taking this seriously and regulating ourselves now". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) I've got my asbestos undies on. ;) You know what? I think this is a GOOD thing. I look at some of those targetted breeds and shake my head and my guess is I"m not alone. You are not alone. And judges have been overlooking some of these things for years. I agree, provided and assuming, of course, that it is sound reasoning/opinion that is being made by the Vets. The question that spun around in my mind was that if these dogs have "defects" sufficient enough to expel them from a Best in Breed ..... how come they got as far as they did in the first place? Why aren't they inspected first up? Edited March 10, 2012 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Yes, there ARE BIG issues in some breeds including the one I go in to battle for but there is a way of moving forward and seeing the forest as well as the trees. Another public affairs nightmare. Another negative message sent world wide about the purebred dog and the ineptitude of those who sit in positions of power and another negative mssage about the failure of the system as it currently is. What message do you think is being sent? The message I get is "we're taking this seriously and regulating ourselves now". Thats not the message I'm getting and doubtful the one the public will get either. Its saying to me that purebred dogs which are bred for the way they look are sick. Whats more most people with two eyes in their head and who are not blinded by the culture can see it and have seen it for years. The thing they control is the judges and they should have thought this out better rather than make public sacrifices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Yes, there ARE BIG issues in some breeds including the one I go in to battle for but there is a way of moving forward and seeing the forest as well as the trees. Another public affairs nightmare. Another negative message sent world wide about the purebred dog and the ineptitude of those who sit in positions of power and another negative mssage about the failure of the system as it currently is. What message do you think is being sent? The message I get is "we're taking this seriously and regulating ourselves now". Thats not the message I'm getting and doubtful the one the public will get either. Its saying to me that purebred dogs which are bred for the way they look are sick. Whats more most people with two eyes in their head and who are not blinded by the culture can see it and have seen it for years. The thing they control is the judges and they should have thought this out better rather than make public sacrifices. So it's what, 3 dogs, out of all the hundreds of BOB's that will compete for Best in Show? I'm going to have go and straw poll my nondoggie friends and relatives again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Video from Crufts about the vet checks: This isn't the bulldog that was disqualified, is it? Edited March 10, 2012 by Sheridan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 No, different dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog_fan Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 It appears from that clip that the participants knew the dogs would be tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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