Training Dogs Not To Kill Chickens - Advice Please

[ash1]

We have eight dogs; four seniors and four "juniors" who are all around 18mths old.

The seniors are fine around our poultry, never been interested in them and can be trusted 100% even if left alone in the chicken yard without supervision.

The four juniors, on the other hand, have already proven themselves to be killers. So far they have jointly killed one guinea fowl and a turkey.

They also bailed up the neighbours cat (who has adopted us and lives mostly on the roof of our cat enclosure), fortunately he managed to scale a tree, but I have little doubt they would dispatch the cat if they caught it (they can't get to our cats).

Old school methods vary from tying the dead fowl around the dog's neck until it rots off, smacking the dog with the dead bird, etc, etc, apparently this is supposed to be failsafe but this doesn't sit well with me as a method of training. Also doesn't address the cat problem.

Can anyone give me a tried and true system/method for getting the dogs to leave the poultry (and cats) alone? Ideally we would love to have the dogs and poultry all free-ranging safely in our house yard (as we can with the older dogs), but that's just a pipedream at this stage. The problem is that although the chickens are happy to stay in their (very large) yard, the young turkeys and guineas are constantly flying up over the fence to the house yard. It's only been good luck that I have spotted the other loose birds before the dogs and managed to get the dogs inside and the birds back into their yard otherwise we would have had a lot more fatalities.

[disintegratus]

Sorry, completely inappropriate, but the "old school methods" had me envisioning tying a live cat to the dogs neck, which struck me as hilarious (to be fair, my brain tends to view things in a very cartoonish way, so it was pretty funny :))

The only thing I would suggest (and the only thing I have behind me is my own experiences, so I'm totally unqualified to give you a decent solution) is to start slowly. If it's possible, start with maybe being able to see the object of their murderous intent (cat, chicken etc) outside a window, and just praise and treat etc for calm behaviour, gradually moving closer, outside on lead, then offlead etc. Try not to freak the critters out, because it's heaps more fun to chase something that's running than it is to sit down quietly and get treats.

[Weasels]

I am currently training my dogs to not eat lizards in the same way I taught them not to counter-surf, using a "leave-it" principle. Fortunately (for me) lizards don't move fast enough to get their prey juices really flowing so it is going well. Not sure I would ever trust an established killer unsupervised with prey though :/

Edited January 8, 2013 by TheLBD

[Aidan3]

Old school methods vary from tying the dead fowl around the dog's neck until it rots off, smacking the dog with the dead bird, etc, etc, apparently this is supposed to be failsafe but this doesn't sit well with me as a method of training. Also doesn't address the cat problem.

Definitely not failsafe, either. I've never heard of it working! Maybe with good luck.

Can anyone give me a tried and true system/method for getting the dogs to leave the poultry (and cats) alone?

Can you clip the young turkeys and guineas wings? There isn't anything really 100%, especially when you're talking about a group of dogs who have experienced the thrill of killing before.

My approach would be to get the dogs used to seeing the other animals as 'part of the family'. This needs to be done carefully, with effective safety provisions. Basically lots of rewards for being calm around those animals, teach them to do tricks (silly tricks, recalls, down-stay etc) around them.

[Alyosha]

Mesh/roof the poultry pen.

[persephone]

Can anyone give me a tried and true system/method for getting the dogs to leave the poultry (and cats) alone?

No.

any of our dogs who kill/eat poultry are only allowed free at night ..or in areas well away from temptation.

[Alyosha]

And advise your neighbour to confine their cat. Dog attack is only one horrible outcome for wandering cats.

[persephone]

And advise your neighbour to confine their cat. Dog attack is only one horrible outcome for wandering cats.

yes.

[ash1]

Mesh/roof the poultry pen.

Unfortunately it does sound like that's the way it's going to have to go - unfortunately we're talking a good 1/2 an acre or more sized pen, so it's not going to be an overnight exercise. I think in the interim I'm going to sell/rehome the turkeys and guineas for their own sake, once we have the pen with a lid on then I can get some more and in the meantime try working on the dogs although I don't know that I'd ever be able to fully trust them the way I can the seniors.

We have already spoken to the neighbour, she doesn't care about her cat, she has 19 cats of her own and also runs a "cat hotel" (i.e., cat boarding other peoples' cats). We told her the cat was always at our place, she just laughed and said "oh yes, we see him from time to time". Poor cat really wants to move in with us, but one of our cats is very territorial and would make his life a misery. Fortunately his encounter with the dogs seems to have given him wisdom in hindsight, both he and us are now very, very careful to make sure he is well out of the way when the dogs are out.

We did clip the turkeys wings originally, didn't stop them being able to clear the fence and now I don't want to clip them again because it would give them less of a chance to escape the dogs.

I've jury-rigged up a temporary enclosure for them which they hate, but at least they are safe until I can move them on (have them advertised for sale today).

Thanks for all the input, everyone, guess I was looking for a miracle cure and already knew myself there probably wasn't one.

[persephone]

The year before last, we had around 30 guineas..all free range . we kept losing one or two ..and thought it was the wedgetails ..and we didn't really mind, as it is such a wonderful thing to have them close.

Anyhow..due to my lack of management ..I discovered it was a couple of pups ....

pups confined immediately - however they wil still chase if given a chance.

[BlackJaq]

I see no hope as long as the four dogs are together. They will pack up and hunt/play together. Maybe by training them separately you could get them to ignore birds when on their own but as soon as you add another dog or two to the mix they will go back to it, in my experience, especially since they have already successfully killed now.

Edited January 8, 2013 by BlackJaq

[Nekhbet]

I agree you have a pack of dogs that have learned to hunt together. 4 strong e-collars and remotes, some almighty stims over a period to prevent collar smarts.

Conversely keep your poultry locked up, or the dogs.

[ash1]

I agree you have a pack of dogs that have learned to hunt together. 4 strong e-collars and remotes, some almighty stims over a period to prevent collar smarts.

Conversely keep your poultry locked up, or the dogs.

Exactly what my husband reckons, too. The price alone for four collars is a deterrent at the moment.

[Clyde]

We did clip the turkeys wings originally, didn't stop them being able to clear the fence and now I don't want to clip them again because it would give them less of a chance to escape the dogs.

Did you clip both or one? You should only clip one as it unbalances them then.

[Nekhbet]

weigh up the price difference between 2 x Dogtra dual collar remote e-collar systems and making your poultry run 6 foot tall with inward sloping tops. I would electrify the outside with a couple of strands to prevent the dogs bashing at the fence too.

Have a look at K9 Pro's website there's a few specials on there, I would go straight for the one remote with 2 collars package. Leave dummy collars on the dogs when you take the ecollars off so we don't have the problem of learning collar on = good, collar off = shenanigans

[ash1]

We did clip the turkeys wings originally, didn't stop them being able to clear the fence and now I don't want to clip them again because it would give them less of a chance to escape the dogs.

Did you clip both or one? You should only clip one as it unbalances them then.

Only the one, but they still had enough lift to scale the fence, unfortunately.

[ash1]

weigh up the price difference between 2 x Dogtra dual collar remote e-collar systems and making your poultry run 6 foot tall with inward sloping tops. I would electrify the outside with a couple of strands to prevent the dogs bashing at the fence too.

Have a look at K9 Pro's website there's a few specials on there, I would go straight for the one remote with 2 collars package. Leave dummy collars on the dogs when you take the ecollars off so we don't have the problem of learning collar on = good, collar off = shenanigans

Thanks Nekhbet, will do. Bit poor for the next couple of weeks after a busy xmas/new year, so will sell off the turkeys now, then put in some serious hours of training with the collars when we can afford them (using the chooks as "bait"). Once we've lidded the run/trained the dogs I'll look into replacing the turkeys. They're not good for much as we don't eat them, but they're fun birds to have around, especially our big turkey tom.

[Weasels]

Ash1 do you have a good trainer nearby? Someone who can observe the early training sessions to make sure the collars are being used to best effect and with the right timing?

[BlackJaq]

Lol I didn't want to recommend the collars as they are illegal in some states and there is usually an outcry over their use but yes, they may be the only option to stop this behaviour if you do not want/are unable to pen one or the other

[ash1]

Ash1 do you have a good trainer nearby? Someone who can observe the early training sessions to make sure the collars are being used to best effect and with the right timing?

Not sure, will have a look around, although we have done lots of formal obedience training in the past with the seniors, so I am very aware that timing is everything.