Should There Be Restrictions On Junior Handlers

[yarracully]

Further thinking on this issue, but none of the shows we do in a 500k radius of us even has neuters so there would be none available for the juniors to use anyway.

[oakway]

I am the first to encourage Junior Handler Classes but I am continually seeing young juniors with in appropriate dogs and here in lies the problem,

[RoxyNHemi]

Another exhibitor and I were having a discussion the other day about juniors making the right dog choice. I guess its up to the handlers (and the parent particuarly in the younger age groups) to be able to acknowledge that this dog is beyond their capabilities, it is also something the judge should be noting in the ring.

Edited May 1, 2013 by RoxyNHemi

[teddywaddy]

This is an interesting topic.

Isnt child handlers supposed to be fun?? Aren't the kids there to learn and be nurtured??

How about we start by someone policing Victorian clubs that hold shows, to make sure child handlers are being held, I have lost count already this year the number of victorian shows I have attended that have not had a handlers class!!

Why on earth should there be restrictions on Junior Handlers, shouldnt we be encouraging the youth of today, are they not the future of our breeds - you have just got to look at the ANKC stastistics compared to ten years ago to the number of dogs in breeds/being shown has diminished, isnt this something that should be looked at and asked Why???

Something I would like to see brought in for child handlers is a dog qualifying requirement for the Royals and State finals to make the playing field more equal "that the child must have handled the dog in at least three/four breed classes before the said dog is eligible to compete at a Handler final" after all how many people are going to allow a child to handle their multi best in show winner in its breed class!! Not all our child hanlders have access to multi best in show winners for the finals or know the "Right" people.

[Dogsfevr]

This is an interesting topic.

Isnt child handlers supposed to be fun?? Aren't the kids there to learn and be nurtured??

How about we start by someone policing Victorian clubs that hold shows, to make sure child handlers are being held, I have lost count already this year the number of victorian shows I have attended that have not had a handlers class!!

Why on earth should there be restrictions on Junior Handlers, shouldnt we be encouraging the youth of today, are they not the future of our breeds - you have just got to look at the ANKC stastistics compared to ten years ago to the number of dogs in breeds/being shown has diminished, isnt this something that should be looked at and asked Why???

Something I would like to see brought in for child handlers is a dog qualifying requirement for the Royals and State finals to make the playing field more equal "that the child must have handled the dog in at least three/four breed classes before the said dog is eligible to compete at a Handler final" after all how many people are going to allow a child to handle their multi best in show winner in its breed class!! Not all our child hanlders have access to multi best in show winners for the finals or know the "Right" people

Multi BIS winners don't win State finals good handlers win State finals

Edited May 1, 2013 by showdog

[Salukifan]

This is an interesting topic.

Isnt child handlers supposed to be fun?? Aren't the kids there to learn and be nurtured??

How about we start by someone policing Victorian clubs that hold shows, to make sure child handlers are being held, I have lost count already this year the number of victorian shows I have attended that have not had a handlers class!!

Why on earth should there be restrictions on Junior Handlers, shouldnt we be encouraging the youth of today, are they not the future of our breeds - you have just got to look at the ANKC stastistics compared to ten years ago to the number of dogs in breeds/being shown has diminished, isnt this something that should be looked at and asked Why???

Something I would like to see brought in for child handlers is a dog qualifying requirement for the Royals and State finals to make the playing field more equal "that the child must have handled the dog in at least three/four breed classes before the said dog is eligible to compete at a Handler final" after all how many people are going to allow a child to handle their multi best in show winner in its breed class!! Not all our child hanlders have access to multi best in show winners for the finals or know the "Right" people.

You cannot expect a vibrant and growing show scene if you only put effort into encouraging another generation of a family already in the scene to participate. The secret lies in NEW BLOOD with the time, money and commitment to exhibiting. That means adults and what do we do to encourage new adult handlers..... You know the answer to that. A newb adult handler only achieves any kind of welcome via sheer luck and stories of hostility and lack of help abound.

Every single one of us has the potential to welcome or deter new entrants to the show ring and frankly its something some of our number need to be reminded of frequently.

[mirawee]

Our entire male has been used a few times in JH now... interestingly enough usually in the younger age group :laugh: It has always been the child doing the requesting and I have never seen the parent of the child come to check if the dog is suitable. As the dogs owners we make sure one of us is with the dog outside the ring as he can get a bit strong at times - in the ring he is fine although the handler does have to work if they want him to really shine :D He was a bit confused by the exercises to begin with but quickly adapted :) My neuter on the other hand would probably look at the children wondering what they are doing as they are doing it "wrong" (she is an obedience dog as well as showing so likes to be on the "correct" side).

You cannot expect a vibrant and growing show scene if you only put effort into encouraging another generation of a family already in the scene to participate. The secret lies in NEW BLOOD with the time, money and commitment to exhibiting. That means adults and what do we do to encourage new adult handlers..... You know the answer to that. A newb adult handler only achieves any kind of welcome via sheer luck and stories of hostility and lack of help abound.

Every single one of us has the potential to welcome or deter new entrants to the show ring and frankly its something some of our number need to be reminded of frequently.

I actually take exception to it only being sheer luck that people are welcomed. In WA we pride ourselves on welcoming and encouraging anyone with our breed who wants to give showing a go - regardless of where they sourced their dog from :) A lot of others in the Working Dog group (can't comment on any other Groups) are the same both within and without their own breeds. Sure not all, but that is a reflection on the individuals involved in showing NOT the showing itself.

[teddywaddy]

This is an interesting topic.

Isnt child handlers supposed to be fun?? Aren't the kids there to learn and be nurtured??

How about we start by someone policing Victorian clubs that hold shows, to make sure child handlers are being held, I have lost count already this year the number of victorian shows I have attended that have not had a handlers class!!

Why on earth should there be restrictions on Junior Handlers, shouldnt we be encouraging the youth of today, are they not the future of our breeds - you have just got to look at the ANKC stastistics compared to ten years ago to the number of dogs in breeds/being shown has diminished, isnt this something that should be looked at and asked Why???

Something I would like to see brought in for child handlers is a dog qualifying requirement for the Royals and State finals to make the playing field more equal "that the child must have handled the dog in at least three/four breed classes before the said dog is eligible to compete at a Handler final" after all how many people are going to allow a child to handle their multi best in show winner in its breed class!! Not all our child hanlders have access to multi best in show winners for the finals or know the "Right" people.

You cannot expect a vibrant and growing show scene if you only put effort into encouraging another generation of a family already in the scene to participate. The secret lies in NEW BLOOD with the time, money and commitment to exhibiting. That means adults and what do we do to encourage new adult handlers..... You know the answer to that. A newb adult handler only achieves any kind of welcome via sheer luck and stories of hostility and lack of help abound.

Every single one of us has the potential to welcome or deter new entrants to the show ring and frankly its something some of our number need to be reminded of frequently.

Yes in a way I agree Haredown, we are relatively new to the showing scene after a 15 year break - the only differnce that I made this time is that I have chosen whom I associate with, follow my instinct for a nice animal, be pleasant & say hello to everyone, if they dont want to say hello back thats their problem, and keep my opinions to myself unless it is on the way home in the car.... makes a very pleasant experience showing.

How can you encourage new people to the dog world when breeders are continuously saying to people "Sorry we dont sell show dogs" when we were looking for our labrador I lost count how many people we called looking for one to be told this, we were so disheartened until I finally came across a person who was more than happy to sell us a show dog, I also know of other people that have had the same experience, or breeders sell in partnership & put restrictions on the dogs, fancy paying 1500 for a puppy, feeding, successfully campaigning it deciding to use it over your own bitch, then to be told that you cant sell any "show" puppies they have to be pet homed, how is this encouraging to new people??

Our new puppy arrives into Australia next week from very successfull bloodlines, with no strings attached, fully signed over to love, nourish and show to our hearts content - we are so excited :) And if I ever did breed a litter, I would be more than happy to encourage newcomers who were after a show puppy :)

[smisch]

My niece would be one of the few handlers who doesnt live with a show dog. she just came to a show one day and we showed her the ropes and off she went, she has done an amaizng job for a kid who sadly can't doas much as she'd like with the dogs and she tries so hard, She usually meets her dog in the morning of the show and she'll spend time with it and thats it so many of her handlers dogs have been ones shes never met before but we always think and carefully choose what she can and cant show. I think her shining moment was taking our mess of a lowchen (Leo) into a ring, he'd never been handled in jrs let alone by anyone other then us and his previous owners and they won the class beating another much more experienced handler handling her own dog.

Doing Handlers has empowered her and given her confidence in general, she isnt afraid to try new things now and get out there and give things ago espically when it comes to school now, she did her first royal this year and had a blast. For all the positives it gives her I wouldn't wanna change or restrict handlers as it then "Waters it down" most of the young handlers wanna be just like us older handlers hence why they come to the shows with us because they enjoy the atmosphere and be apart of it all. Why would you wanna take that kind of confidence,empowerment and glory away from a kid? They've gotta start somewhere if they start at the beginning by the time they're ready to hit the ring with the big kids theen they are prepared.

Personally my niece doesnt want to handle in a ring (she has done so with a few dogs) she says she prefers handlers an thats fine with us.. but if and when she chnages her mind we know she'll be well prepared as thats what handlers has prepared her for

[dancinbcs]

The only problem I see with JH is too many kids going in with dogs who have been trained to show but not specifically trained for JH and there is a big difference. My niece, who had never owned a dog, started handling at 11 and won her first Pal heat from an entry of 22 with my bitch who had also never compete in JH. What they had done though was practice and practice all the JH moves until they both knew them before entering a class. After that they did a lot of winning and my niece would borrow other dogs to practice with, after their breed class, for many shows until she was confident to take them into JH. After she stopped showing, my bitch that she had trained, was lent to many kids over several years and they nearly all won or placed with her.

I don't think the breed or whether they are neutered matters, what matters is how they are trained and how reliable they are with strangers.

[Amstaff_Ambition]

It all comes down to common sense.

I see juniors controlling their dogs better than many adults do ... know your limits/strength.

At my last show just gone i had an adult come up to me before group and ask me to keep my breed well away from her dog in the group line up as her dog hates my breed and she wont be able to hold him back if he went for my dog Comforting.

[Lowenhart]

I think Haredown's idea to restict Juniors (but most specifically under 10's) to neuters is somewhat flawed.

Forcing inexperienced handlers to take on unknown dogs (unless parents decide to neuter/spay their own dog for the sole use by the junior) that may not be a compatible size (to large/strong for the size of the junior, a table dog for a junior who can not see over it on the table) or temperament (may not live with or have experience with children, or has aggression/fear issues) because neutered/spayed dogs are perceived to be quieter and easier to handle.

I think in all cases ALL handlers (no matter the age) need to be able to control and restrain their dogs. As an adult I am short and quite a small build and would not be a suitable handler for a large very strong breed.

Many moons ago, when I was a junior handler, I handled an entire male Afghan Hound that was larger and very strong for the breed. Right behind me in the line up for handlers was a bitch in season and smelling really good! I kept that dog under control the entire time, though it was an effort. In that situation I was at my "limit" of capabilities, able to maintain control but if the dog had been stronger then I would not have been as successful. If I'd reached that point I would have called the dog's owner over to assist regaining control and would have withdrawn from competition.

It's important that parents/guardians/owners of handlers dogs do not allow children into the ring with dogs they are unable to control, it's a very simple principle. Spaying/neutering is not a guarantee of a controllable dog.