Advanced Obedience Assessment Help

[Staffyluv]

Hi guys,

I have a bit of a dilemma - I think it is too late to do anything about it but I thought I would put it out there and see if anyone had any ideas.

Zig has his advanced obedience assessment this Sunday and we are not allowed to use lures/toys/rewards or treats in the ring.

Most of the time he is good but his drop has slacked off loads and at the moment he won't drop - without seeing a reward. No matter how stern I am or how 'happy' I am, unless there is a treat in front of his nose (tennis ball), he won't drop.

The other issue is the stand for exam - same thing as the drop. He won't stand unless the ball is in front of his nose - he stands but then sits again straight away.

With the ball, he drops and or stands every time - so he knows the commands.

So my question is - how do I get him to work for no reward until we get out of the ring. Can I teach this between now and Sunday - if so, any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

From an excited but very nervous owner..

[minimax]

Can you draw a tennis ball on your hand :laugh:

Sorry, not helpful :p I have the same issue with my pugs, they don't do a thing unless they see what's in it for them.

[Staffyluv]

:laugh:

I actually thought of going and buying one of those mini ones (they are about the size of a golf ball) and attaching it to my palm with a rubber band but I dare say the judge would see it and then he would fail..

I am pretty sure he will pass but he is snubbing me and I don't know how to change fix it.

It is almost like he is saying - no ball, no work.. cheeky boy.

[Kavik]

I am sure others will have ideas . . .

What about placing the ball in the room where he can't see it, ask him to do something and when he does, run to the ball and play. Or start smaller - what about if the ball is in your pocket? For now you want to reward straight away but not have to have the reward right in front of him. Once you can do it with one exercise on its own, then you can start extending it to more than one thing. I'm not sure if it is doable by Sunday though!

[Staffyluv]

This is a new thing with him - it has only been the last 2 weeks that he won't do it unless he can see the ball.. He was working without it for about 3 weeks but seems to have reverted back to wanting it.. It is only the drop and stand that I am having issues with - he heels without it, sits and stays without it..

I asked about having the ball in my pocket at the assessment and was told that I could but would lose points for it..

Thanks Kavik, I might try the next few days with him being able to see it but not getting it until the full exercise is over.

He can have it once we leave the ring, with no penalty.. He just can't have it in the ring...

[Nekhbet]

Is it because you have been rewarding him anyway for his non complience? So you show him tennis ball, he performs command, you reward?

If you have, go back a few steps. Ask him to do a command, if he doesnt on the first go give him a marker like UH UH to show, sorry, wrong, try again. When he does it with no ball in view reward.

[huski]

Do you have a trigger word that says its time to work?

It sounds like he's learnt the sight of the reward is part of the command chain. He is triggering off the sight of the reward rather than a cue word from you like "ready?"

It's a common problem and fixable but might take a bit more time! This might be a good exercise to try as an example of how to train a command without making the sight of the reward part of the trigger to work;

http://k9pro.com.au/services/training-the-behavioural-interrupter/

[Staffyluv]

Is it because you have been rewarding him anyway for his non complience? So you show him tennis ball, he performs command, you reward?

If you have, go back a few steps. Ask him to do a command, if he doesnt on the first go give him a marker like UH UH to show, sorry, wrong, try again. When he does it with no ball in view reward.

Yep, thanks - I think that is where I am going wrong.

I thought maybe I was overdoing it and stressing (which tends to stress him out as well).

A good example of this was when we first starting to work leash free in a group of dogs (class). I was so scared he would take off and try to play with the other dogs. When I let him go that is exactly what he did.

Our trainer talked me through letting the leash go with confidence, keeping his focus and trusting he would do the right thing and ever since, he hasn't broken to go to other dogs once - my lack of confidence in him and myself was holding us back.

Huski, yes we do. I use the word 'ready'. When I say ready he sits at heel and looks at me waiting for the next cue.

I want us to pass but I am also aware that we still have some issues that need ironing out.

I am going to have a rest day tomorrow and just do some basic recall and play.

I will go back, fresh on Thursday..

It is so much easier when fresh minds look at what I am doing..

Thanks guys.

[hankdog]

I would say a rest is a good idea. I've been pushing Jake to speed up response time and (for heavens sake) "get" a stand. All that happened was a big-fat-lay-down ignore-you tantrum. I just stopped and concentrated on crate training for two days and today in 3 goes with no treats our trainer had him standing. It seemed simpler without treats flying around, just giving him the command and a leash pop in the right direction and allowing him to think what he was doing. Jake seems to baulk when I really want him to do something.

[Staffyluv]

We'll done HD and Jake..

Zig gets things really quickly.

He picked up the stand command in just a couple of goes.

My biggest thing has been getting his focus to stay on me, when there is so much distraction around.

We separated him and one of his dog buddies because every time we tried off lead work, they would bolt to each other to play..

We have that sorted now..

Now we have the focus thing down, he is turning his nose up at me for really basic stuff.

Like the drop command.. It is like he just doesn't want to do it.

But his recall from 6 metres away, then he comes and stops right in front of me, then I tell him to finish (so he goes back to heel position beside me), he does this without missing a beat.

His heel patterns are wonderful, until he is asked to drop..

We are taking a break today. I will take both dogs for a good run at the park and just let them let off some steam..

[Cleo's Corgwyn]

We'll done HD and Jake..

Zig gets things really quickly.

He picked up the stand command in just a couple of goes.

My biggest thing has been getting his focus to stay on me, when there is so much distraction around.

We separated him and one of his dog buddies because every time we tried off lead work, they would bolt to each other to play..

We have that sorted now..

Now we have the focus thing down, he is turning his nose up at me for really basic stuff.

Like the drop command.. It is like he just doesn't want to do it.

But his recall from 6 metres away, then he comes and stops right in front of me, then I tell him to finish (so he goes back to heel position beside me), he does this without missing a beat.

His heel patterns are wonderful, until he is asked to drop..

We are taking a break today. I will take both dogs for a good run at the park and just let them let off some steam..

Jodes, I'm not teaching on Thursdays at the moment, so give me a yell if you'd like me to come out and give you some extra pointers tomorrow night....

[Staffyluv]

I am sorry Nic, I didn't see your offer to help.

We have done some work over the last few days - some things seem OK and others not so good.

I dare say we will be going back to redo the advanced class but that is OK - we both enjoy. Just means Rally-O will be on hold for another term.

Today he seems particularly good, inside at home.. His heel work is nice and smooth, his drops fine, his stand is still iffy and his stays here at home are fine.

His 'finish' after recall is sometimes very good and instant and other times he looks at me like he doesn't know what I want. We don't have to do this, it isn't assessed but I dare say a nice finish back at heel will be a tad more impressive than me walking around him.

I think Zipp will do well and pass with flying colours (I shouldn't jinx myself, should I)..

I have put loads of work into Zig and pass or not, to me he is simply amazing.

[Cleo's Corgwyn]

That's all that matters, Jodes. We all know that we go home with the best dogs at the end of the day, even if other people haven't had the chance to see it!

Good luck.

[Staffyluv]

Thanks Nic I am going to tell myself that today.

I just had him out for a big run and then we run through everything he was supposed to do.. It is still the drop and stand - the drop, it is like he is just defiant and not doing it. Whereas the stand, he looks confused, like he has forgotten it.

I am not going to stress about it - we have done enough to prepare for today, so hopefully it will all just go off without a hitch.

[Staffyluv]

Just sharing so every one can see the boy came third and it was recommended that he go up to novice..

And our little foster angel came first in her beginners class.

Zig third and Zip first 15.9.2013 by jamoore photos, on Flickr

[Sue & Waldo]

Awesome work! Well done!!!

[Tassie]

That's great staffyluv .. you must be really thrilled with both your kids. They certainly look pretty pleased with themselves. :D

[hankdog]

Brilliant Z-doggies. Well done to you for all the work,

[Staffyluv]

Thanks guys - it has been a long and sometimes hard road but I can see such a difference in Zig from when we started our journey together.

As for Zipp, she was always going to come first - she is amazing and will make an awesome pet for a family (it will be a bonus if they have kids over about 8 because she is still a puppy at 9 months old and can be a bit full on)..

Because she trains 'with' Zig, she copies him - so she does long stays already. She heels like she has been doing it forever and she is even starting to do returns (finishing after a recall where they come back behind you and sit at heel position)..

I really have to do her write up for the website, while the work is all fresh.

I will only let her go to a home, where she is inside and part of the family, preferably they will have another dog, maybe some bigger kids and will continue her training because she has some unreal potential for obedience and could really go all the way to the top.

The assessor we had for her, usually only does the higher level dogs assessments and he was stoked with her. He said her focus is amazing for a dog that has only just done beginners obedience.

He even come to watch me do the assessment with Zig in advanced.. He gave me a lot of pointers on the day to improve things with Zig.

The assessor Zig and I had was really tough on us but she said that he was one of her favourites on the day :)

She also told me that most of the problems with Zig are my issues and I need to do some stuff to get him over the line easier..

I can't wait to get him into novice now - I was thinking about holding him back and redoing advanced but the assessor told me that was the wrong thing to do because she thinks he is more than ready for some more challenges.