Erny Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Erny, I guessed that too before I continued to read on. Certainly the "Dogtech" style of training...you can't miss it. Yeah - it seems to be a "one size fits all" method. Wonder how long their course takes to learn. Not long, I suspect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missey's Mum Posted January 11, 2006 Author Share Posted January 11, 2006 Drive training can also consist of a fetch game if that what you dog likes. It dosn't necessarily need to be a game of tug or chase. I don't understand what drive training means, I'll look more into it, but I find it interesting I was specifically told not to throw the ball (for the two weeks), and I've been told not to play tug EVER because it causes aggression. Missey's three favourite games are fetch (and try and catch it in the air), tug and chasing/chased around in circles with something in her mouth. She also enjoyes chasing after rats in the park, she rarely catches them, even whn she is able) and prefers to go round the bushes until it runs to a drain. I've heard it can be dangerous in case of the rat biting, but she enjoys it so much and rarely gets close enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 would Hanrob be close to you? I have no idea of cost sorry. Steve Austin is an amazing trainer and animal behaviourist. The trainers are all trained by him Hanrob use a mixture of positive reinfrocement and negative punishment which means treats for desired behaviour and removal of a value like a toy for undesirable behaviour. Everything is explained and they ensure you understand the reasons which seems to be sadly lacking with your current trainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missey's Mum Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 would Hanrob be close to you? He was the other trainer I was recommended in my original post. http://forums.dogzonline.com.au/index.php?showtopic=51131 He isn't really any easy to get to, still have to try and get my dog on public transport. I ended up choosing Dogtech as they came to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Yeah - it seems to be a "one size fits all" method. Wonder how long their course takes to learn. Not long, I suspect? Erny, as you know similar to a franchise so it's a very methodical approach, ie one recipe to work with....pretty much like McDonalds (food ) MM: I've been told not to play tug EVER because it causes aggression MM, this is the biggest load of garbage. With that said, however, all tug games must be controlled by you, ie. you instigate and you end it with a "off" or "enough" command. Missey's three favourite games are fetch (and try and catch it in the air), tug and chasing/chased around in circles with something in her mouth. How long have you been told to withhold all these things from Missy?. Sounds like she's being deprived of all things fun I would be definitely be checking out either Steve at K9 or Steve at Hanrob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missey's Mum Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 How long have you been told to withhold all these things from Missy?. Sounds like she's being deprived of all things fun She's certainly deprived of all fun, no ball or games for two weeks and in future I play with one toy only and I bring it out and put it away, no tug ever, and I didn't actually talk to her abou the chasing, but she's supposed to be tethered for two weeks (she's not, I'm making her sit on her mat with command), and not allowed throughout the house at her leisure after that, so I assumed the chase game would be over cos that often involves a little bit of tug too. I have still thrown the ball for her a few times, esp after she was so unhappy and it did cheer her up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missey's Mum Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 Poor Missey, I was just thinking, she also enjoys it when I hide under the bedcovers and call out to her. She's not allowed on the bed anymore, so I guess that's out too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 She's certainly deprived of all fun, no ball or games for two weeks and in future I play with one toy only and I bring it out and put it away, no tug ever, and I didn't actually talk to her abou the chasing, but she's supposed to be tethered for two weeks (she's not, I'm making her sit on her mat with command), and not allowed throughout the house at her leisure after that, so I assumed the chase game would be over cos that often involves a little bit of tug too.I have still thrown the ball for her a few times, esp after she was so unhappy and it did cheer her up. I'm no dog trainer but this sounds dreadful Supposed to be tethered for two weeks???? OMG! I wouldn't let these people anywhere near my dogs. Please try K9, I've been to one of his workshops and he's brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 (edited) Missy sack them go elsewhere, if K9 and Hanrob are no good for your location surely someone in Sydney can suggest close option which they have seen results from. Missy there have been masses of threads about dogtech before, here is one from a year ago. dogtech thread Edited January 12, 2006 by Rusky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Tethered for two weeks :rolleyes: My goodness it sounds like boot camp (worse!) MM, do yourself and Missy a favour and sack them. This is not dog training or behaviour problem solving -it's a joke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missey's Mum Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 I'm waiting for a reply phone call so I can ask about the stress, but I've got a lift if I want to go to K9 now. He is my first choice since he has already been very helpful and is so well respected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Good decision....long gone will be the yawns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 (edited) MM - get yourself delivered to K9 Force, he is booked out usually 2-3 months ahead, but ask him if he is planning on doing any open workshops in a near future maybe you could attend one of them. Often people car pull to go to them, each time I went I gave a lift to someone. Kavik - as to your q re prey drive and excitement etc. Im not 100% sure but perhaps the prob is that your step of training under distraction was too soon, Zoe couldnt overcome her nerves and went back into what she knew - agression. Maybe the proximity of the dogs was the step too big in her training. As you know Rex aint a loving pussy cat but I have followed Steves advice and train and train in prey drive as much as I can (which in reality is 10-15 minutes a day and involves sit, drop heal recall and throwing of the ball as a reward and time out). No other dogs around, he is absolutly mental about the ball right now and he wasnt in the beginnig at all... Couple of days ago when I was training on the golf course there was a dog walking pass behind a chicken wire fence. What a perfect opportunity for me to see what will my dog do.. I threw the ball in the directon of the fence and the dog, Rex run for it blind, got it and brought it back. As if the outside world didnt exist :rolleyes: I did another test, I let him go and do whatever he wanted, he spoted the dog stifened up and run towards it. In a situation where there was no fence I would have by than have a heart attack. I let it go to see what will he do, he went closer and closer to the fence, pass the comfort zone if it wasnt there. I called him he stoped and looked at me, so I produced the ball, and he was just so happy galloped full speed back to me, got the ball as a reward. My personal conclusion is that I have reached the level in him of the desire for the ball being higher than his desire for the WWIII with another dog, or even investigation of the other dog. I let him do whatever he wanted, all he wanted was to play with me, forgot about the other dog... but he was still extremly excited. Here is my 6 yo dog agro male. 6 months ago he certainly would bring aything back, often wouldnt chase and certainly wouldnt be so focused on me http://www.youtube.com/watch.php?v=v9CrqwXjQTk This is what I do with him every day for 10-15 minutes as work in prey drive. Edited January 13, 2006 by myszka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I'm waiting for a reply phone call so I can ask about the stress, but I've got a lift if I want to go to K9 now. He is my first choice since he has already been very helpful and is so well respected. I'm so pleased that you've decided to go to Steve, that Dog Whisperer/Dogtech lot sound horrific. Steve is great :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missey's Mum Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 The advice was: Don't do anything, she'll get used to it, give her a pat at the end of training. I already am giving her a pat after training, it's supposed to be the only time I can, although I do give her a pat if she is obedient. I'm now fairly confident that dogtech's methods are not for my dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 If you can't get in to K9 for 2 to 3 months as has been suggested perhaps someone in your area can help you to find a suitable immediate alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 myszka I would have no problems keeping Zoe's attention if I wa using something alive :rolleyes: . Her prey drive for living things is just insane (she has been trying to get a blue tongue that has hidden all afternoon . . . ) but unfortunately I have not been able to successfully move that to toys. I may be able to, but once she does get excited, her arousal means that her aggression skyrockets. I found that out at agility. Her runs were brilliant and she would not leave the course to get to another dog, but if one came up to her when she was running, or when we were waiting, it was bad news. I'm still not sure whether it would be better to rev her up than keep her calm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I actually have similar prey drive problems for both my dogs, so I must be doing something wrong. They are motivated for toys in the yard (balls, tugs, even sticks and blades of grass) but only in selected areas outside of the yard. Diesel will chase the tug at training but not on walks. Diesel is a bit better than Zoe because I have done more work with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haven Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 To be honest, while I definately agree with Erny's comments earlier about owner's not sticking to advice being a common problem, I would consider very seriously about kicking these methods to the curb. They sound unnecessarily extreme IMO and even if it works, at what price to your dog and you relationship with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 K: I would have no problems keeping Zoe's attention if I wa using something alive laugh.gif . Her prey drive for living things is just insane K9: she is telling you that your prey item needs more movement :rolleyes: K: her arousal means that her aggression skyrockets. K9 she needs to go through the complete program of obedience & then add dogs as a distraction, she gets aggressive as she isnt sure all of the ways she can win the items & thinks another dog may win it... K: I'm still not sure whether it would be better to rev her up than keep her calm. K9: you need her to focus on the line, ie keep her in drive initialisation, this is where focus occurs... With voice & hand control, you can hold her & raise her to the theshold of drive peak, have her explode on take off this way... K: I actually have similar prey drive problems for both my dogs, so I must be doing something wrong. They are motivated for toys in the yard (balls, tugs, even sticks and blades of grass) but only in selected areas outside of the yard. Diesel will chase the tug at training but not on walks. Diesel is a bit better than Zoe because I have done more work with him. K9: you need to be back into development, you dont have enough drive yet. Haven: To be honest, while I definately agree with Erny's comments earlier about owner's not sticking to advice being a common problem, I would consider very seriously about kicking these methods to the curb. They sound unnecessarily extreme IMO and even if it works, at what price to your dog and you relationship with her. K9: yes it sounds like a program for an extreme rank aggressive dog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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