shoemonster Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 (edited) Ok, my question is with 2 dogs (who currently give me a sit or drop stay - my call - side by side with full eye contact before released with an "ok" for their dinner, they are food vaccuums and are on edge waiting for the "ok" the whole time), Do I tie them both up at the same time, or do I do them one at a time? If I do them one at a time, who do I pick first? Is it significant to them or doesn't matter? Thanks heaps Steve Edited September 17, 2006 by shoemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted September 18, 2006 Author Share Posted September 18, 2006 Mokey: I'm assuming that I put the food bowl on the ground at some point in there. Could you please clarify when? (Sorry if this sounds stupid, but I want to make sure I'm doing it correctly!) K9: yes you sure do, slightly evelvated is ok too.. Dasha: My problem here is that I have already conditioned her with "yes" as a bridge/release for reward word since she was a pup. She was taught that "yes" indicated the behaviour is over and she could end it. So is "yes" still the word to use when she looks at me but now she just needs to wait for OK til she can go, or do I need to use another word to mark the look such as "good" so I don't confuse her. K9: you can swap ok to the bridge word & yes as the release.... But you need two... You need to teach the dog that those two start to have time between them so that you can maintain the length of time the dog is in command... Dasha: Also in your TOT post you mentioned about the dog circling its food to watch you, is this a good thing or bad. K9: This is an indication the dog lacks trust... Dasha: Are you saying that if the dog circles looking at me, that she considers me as alpha? And if that is the case, if she is circling watching another dog, does she consider that dog as alpha and to heck with me! I am just curious as she is fighting alot between with another bitch and am trying to sort this out before they do much more damage to each other. K9: she probably feels the food could be taken from her, so watches/guards the resource, the TOT usually fixes this... SM: Do I tie them both up at the same time, or do I do them one at a time? If I do them one at a time, who do I pick first? Is it significant to them or doesn't matter? K9: start them with no other dogs around, doesnt matter which one.. The tie out is essentail, as you want the dog to see that your not keeping it from the food, the tie out is, you help the dog... IE your not withholding anything, but helping win... If you hold them back with Alpha Pressure, the reliability will be based on your proximity to the dog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Cool, I'm going to start tonight! This will be fantastic for Ed, who has his issues with tie outs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Good Luck shoemonster, I'm starting too and would you believe skimmed through this whole thread to see if your question had already been asked as I wanted to know the same thing I'm a bit nervous as up till now I've been feeding them at the same time so it will be fun keeping the other one away, will have to engage the kids to help I think :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasha Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Thanks K9. She circles the food while watching the other bitch that she fights with. She doesn't give 2 hoots what I do while she is eating!! Just as long as that other bitch doesn't get near her food. And yes she does guard her food terribly but only from other dogs. People don't worry her at all around food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 lol Sunny, I read the whole thing to make sure before I asked!!! Tonight was interesting, one screamed inside while the other did tot, then swap around and the other screamed too :D I guess they will learn soon enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Yes well similar here, puppy carried on inside while TOT with big boy, who just stared at the bowl with a 'hang dog' look until I said his name a couple of times Pup did better than expected, she doesn't like being tied out so fussed a bit, but looked at me quickly after I put the food down and stood at her side :D Neither ate their full meal, they got 10 mins each and I took it away so they will be super hungry tomorrow night, puppy is still getting breakfast so will just do her in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 I have to make my yes very monotone, or they think its a release and try to pull out the tie (even though they know ok is the release!!! brats) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 I guess all dogs are different but I said "Yes" in the tone I would use with a toddler/preschooler when they 'get' something :D Upbeat but calm/gentle would be the best I could describe it. No idea if that is right though, total novice here !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 When I normally use "yes" as a bridge I use it in a pretty excited tone, but last night when they would look at me and I said "yes" they woul pull to get to the food and lose focus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Well breakfast went better already which is great What are people using as their ties? I am using an old lead looped over a metal stake at ground level, connected to their collar, is this ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Wow...this rocks I was a VERY evil doggy mum this morning and didn't feed pup because she stole toast, so figured she could wait till dinner She obviously is NOT starving to death because of this as I think she has eaten her meat and left her biscuits and is now crying at the door :D I am giving her 10mins then doing big boy. To my shame they haven't been seperated, he isn't bothered as he has at times been an only dog (I've fostered ) and meals haven't been a problem between them so I've just let them eat together :D Ooooh I hear a bowl scraping...she has gone back to her food Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Woo hoo she ate it all up Now big boys turn, still did the hang dog look staring at the food and wasn't impressed on coming over to be tied out, but we got there :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Hi Steve, I'm just reading through the TOT again and note that you have no verbal marker to trigger the drive in TOT like you do for training in prey drive. For a competition dog, would it be handy to have the verbal trigger as well so that the dog knows that food is coming? I could be all confused here, but I'm assuming that the 'ready to work' command is the trigger for prey drive? If I do have the above right, is there a reason why there is no verbal trigger in the TOT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitKat Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Another Question for you...if the dog has a food word...do you use that at all? or do you ditch it and stay with the "yes" and "ok" (or their variable)? or do you try and fit in the food word after the "ok" for example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted October 27, 2006 Author Share Posted October 27, 2006 Rom: I'm just reading through the TOT again and note that you have no verbal marker to trigger the drive in TOT like you do for training in prey drive. For a competition dog, would it be handy to have the verbal trigger as well so that the dog knows that food is coming? K9: In this program, I want the dog tuned into me, so I dont use a trigger (verbal), although you can say something like "where is your dinner". for eg. When I attach the tie out, it becomes the trigger, later when I give the commands, they are, just chains the commands into the reward a bit cleaner. R: I could be all confused here, but I'm assuming that the 'ready to work' command is the trigger for prey drive? K9: I like to provide the trigger in prey drive training so that I may turn it on when I like, but yes you have it spot on... KK: Another Question for you...if the dog has a food word...do you use that at all? or do you ditch it and stay with the "yes" and "ok" (or their variable)? or do you try and fit in the food word after the "ok" for example? K9: good question, if you mean something like "eat em up", I dont use that type of command & recommend against it. When I give a dog a command, I want it carried out, I follow a training rule "never give the dog a command you cant enforce" if I command eat & the dog doesnt, dog learns it doesnt have to follow every command... If you have enough food drive created by the experience of the TOT, when you give the release command "ok", the dog will do what it wants, eat, & if it doesnt, no big deal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joy4land Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 (edited) Hi K9, I've been reading&doing this with my two dogs for 12days. One 2 1/2 Jack Russell has no problem with waiting until I say"OK". My 6months GSD however doesnt doing well. When it's dinner time,I will tie her up then bring the food out. She just try to pull out, jump to get the food. I try to stand at her right side--but she kept moving&wolking &jumping ..... Maxine will only give me a short look, I can't even finish saying "yes" ;) . I think she didnt get"yes", should I use "yes" with her daily? i.e. when giving food? Or should I say "good" instead? One more thing. Since I started this with her, she wont do any "heel" while training. When I hold the leash and say"heel", she will either pull back or drop :p I really hope that I can have this done with her--I need more confidence through this program Thanks in advance!! Edited November 6, 2006 by joy4land Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 6, 2006 Author Share Posted November 6, 2006 J: When it's dinner time,I will tie her up then bring the food out. She just try to pull out, jump to get the food. I try to stand at her right side--but she kept moving&wolking &jumping K9: Move the food further away, you missed the part where you move the food away until the dog looses a little bit of drive... J: I think she didnt get"yes", should I use "yes" with her daily? i.e. when giving food? Or should I say "good" instead? K9: yes or good is fine, but only use one & use it consistently. J: One more thing. Since I started this with her, she wont do any "heel" while training. When I hold the leash and say"heel", she will either pull back or drop K9: That is what is called a co incidence. Training the heel should be continued just the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joy4land Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Thanks K9, she's getting better which is great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebekah_ashby Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Hi there, Last night I posted a mesage about my dogs that go beserk whenever we go for walks and it was suggested I try this method. I have no trouble at feeding time really, they will both sit back and wait till I say they can eat (oscar will jump on me while I'm preparing it) I don't really do this much anymore though. They do seem to obey me most of the time but with them completely ignoring me if they are on the lead and another dog is around there is obviously some leadership issues, strangely enough they are generally fine if they are off the lead. Anyway I'm keen to try this method to see if I can sort out the issue. I see that this can be done with two dogs at a time but I'm not sure how to go about it. I live in a one bedroom unit and don't have a back yard. I assume that the dogs need to be seperated for this to work is that correct? I could place one in the kitchen and one in the bathroom I suppose (they normally both eat in the kitchen) but I would then have no where to go "inside" as such. Do I just feed them at different times then? Bek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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