Food Intolerances & Elimination Diets – Advice Needed

[peigirl]

Thanks everyone for all your messages and support, I really appreciate it. Raf's diagnosis has come as a shock to me.

I decided yesterday to switch from chicken to turkey as I was seeing no improvement in his stools. Unfortunately I couldn’t find turkey in any supermarkets yesterday so I opted for home made chicken stock and rice for dinner. Raf's very gurgling stomach woke me at 4.30am and I expected the worse. A 1 hr walk failed to produce anything. Raf was also home alone inside all day and I was expecting a funky present this evening but no! Off to the dog park tonight for a good run around and 30 mins later we were in business! By no means was it firm but at least it had some shape - which beats the gravy I've been seeing for the past 5 days. Never have I been so happy to see a poo Raf looked pretty pleased with himself too I realise it's very early days and there is a long way to go but it would seem the rice has had a binding effect (like what you were saying fido). I really needed something positive. Have had a tension headache for the last 4 days worrying about the little man.

Thanks for the advice re turkey peibe. Raf had it for the first time this evening (cooked) and with rice and all is good so far. I will make sure he only gets it cooked when he's fed it. Not getting ahead of myself at the moment and thinking about other meats. Here's hoping we can do a few consecutive days of rice and turkey and start to wean off the medication.

Also picked up some of the Colitis homeopathics at Wholistic Animal this afternoon. Fingers crossed they have a positive effect too. I've also managed to find a vet in perth who does animal naturopathy (no small task in a tiny town like Perth!). She is able to do food intolerance testing by judging muscle reaction. Only 70% accurate but will test whatever substances I want and any test is better than nothing at all. Just need to wait until Raf's stomach has settled down slightly and we will be off to see her too.

[bark]

Hi peigirl,

I can imagine the amount of stress you and your dog are going through. My pup who is 8 mths old had been diagnosed in May with an inflamed bowel brought on by food intolerances. Since then he's been on 2 courses of Metronidazole (the second course was a stronger dose) and Peptosyl to dry up the diahrhoea. I have since found that he's allergic to rice, pasta, roo, veal, yoghurt, Hills Science Diet kibble and was advised by the vet to completely change his diet to foods he hadn't eaten before such as Walthams fish and potatoe dry food which worked well.

He's now on Eukanuba Response Fish and potatoe (both Walthams and E Response are only available from vets) which agrees with him. He finished his medication yesterday and his pooh is now formed and solid so I'll be introducing vegetables slowly back into his diet. I'm aiming toward one dry food meal of Eukanuba Response and one fresh food meal per day.

Think twice about administering probiotics as I understand that many commercial brands contain the good bacterial AND pathogens which could add to the problem, in my case the inflamed bowel.

I must admit that my sister who is in the medical field helped identify some of the foods my pup should stay away from ... but I didn't tell my vet that as he probably wouldn't agree with a human doctor interferring in animal food intolerances.

[spikey]

Peigirl, I fully sympathise with you. I have an "allergy dog" as well, he has had problems with extreme itchiness from the time he was around 14 weeks of age, and to cut a long story short, we also went to Murdoch Uni (Dermatology Dept) and had blood tests sent off to the US which confirmed weed/mould allergies. Our boy is now on desensitising injections.

However we always also had problems with him having runny/sloppy poos and oh, the farting!!!! He was originally on Hills Science Diet (Large Breed Puppy), as well as chicken necks/wings, then was on an elimination diet for about 8 weeks to rule out food allergies being a cause of the itching. On the elimination diet he was on Hills z/d, using venison for treats and training (novel protein source) and also having various fruit and vegies as he had never had them before. There seemed to be some improvement with his poos etc, but then we started to reintroduce his original diet to see if he reacted to anything. Did he what!!! As soon as we gave him any chicken at all, be it raw necks/wings or the Hills Puppy kibble (based on chicken), his poos were revolting and so was the smelly wind that came with it. I stopped giving him ANY chicken based food at all and put him on to Pro Plan Turkey & Barley kibble and the improvement was amazing and almost immediate. His poos have been fine ever since and the "windiness" has reduced considerably. The Turkey & Barley mixture also does not have any wheat or ground corn in it so can be helpful for dogs with allergies to those ingredients as well. I was a bit worried as it's not a puppy kibble and our pup was only 6 months old, but when I compared the analysis, there was hardly any difference in the ingredients apart from a slightly higher calcium level in the puppy kibble (by 0.1%!) - our boy is now nearly 8 months old and doing extremely well on the Pro Plan so maybe it might be worth keeping in mind for your dog if you want to give him kibble and find he tolerates turkey well. Pro Plan also have a kibble based on Salmon for dogs with sensitive skins and tummies, although we haven't tried that one!

Good luck

Julie

[peibe]

How are things going?

Is Raf getting any better?

[badboyz]

My vet recommends roo meat & rice in an elimination diet as it is not a farmed meat therefore no chemicals or hormones used. Just a bullet!

[peibe]

My vet recommends roo meat & rice in an elimination diet as it is not a farmed meat therefore no chemicals or hormones used. Just a bullet!

That sounds great but the problem with skin, eyes and smell that Shar Pei have from eating roo, would make him worse I fear. Hopefully Raf will be one of the rare pei that can tolerate red meat and not loose his fur, it seems it maybe the only course of action

[Fonseca]

Peigirl,

I hope that Rafa is feeling better too.

[Red Mal]

I hope he's feeling better soon and you get to the bottom of this.

Just to add you shouldn't really be feeding meat and kibble, it should be one or the other, as they digest at different rates which is why most dogs on the mixed diet have bad tummies and hence bad poos !!!

Is there a reason you are cooking the meat ??? Any goodness your dog will need from a meat diet is being destroyed when cooked. NEVER feed cooked bones EVER :rolleyes:

Make sure you don't give cow's milk either as dogs are lactose intollerant, goat's milk is fine, but in small doses and only ocassionally as a treat :p

[peigirl]

Thanks for your interest everyone, Raf is doing better than he was a week ago. Has been quite a slow process but we seem to be heading in the right direction.

Our course of Metrogyl finished on Monday morning so we’ve had only two days off the meds with the same turkey/rice meals and homeopathics. The diaorehha has now stopped completely. Raf’s only had two stools in the last five days which had shape but were still of a super soft consistency – however the mucous and jelly coating on these has also all but disappeared. The real test will be in the coming days to see what effect no medication has on his stools – really looking forward to seeing an improvement in frequency and consistency. Heres hoping I can interpret the turkey as agreeing with him based on the positive effect it’s had on his stools so far.

Not considering introducing any other protein sources at this stage – still too early days. Thanks for your advice on the roo meat Peibe – I was checking it out in the supermarket yesterday thinking I might try it in a few weeks but now I will steer clear. Peibe is watery eyes after a meal an indication of an intolerance? Up until the diagnosis Rafa had quite happily tolerated beef, lamb, veal and pork. I do now however have suspicions of lamb and chicken. He hasn’t lost any fur, only about 1-2kg in weight. Weight loss has stabilised now the diaorehha has finished.

Red Mal Rafael’s regular diet for the past 9 months has been raw meat, bones and vege with me making the majority of his meals. He would get 1/3 cup of kibble everyday in his kong as I left for work. He is now getting rice and cooked turkey as it’s a novel protein source for him and shar pei can not tolerate it raw.

[Red Mal]

Glad to hear the little chap's improving :rolleyes:

I asked as it's not advisable like I said to mix a meat diet with kibble because of the difference in digestion speed, causing tummy upsets. Might just be something worth thinking about. If you're sticking to a natural diet try chopping up pieces of carrot to fill his Kong instead :p

[badboyz]

My pei had a problem with skin irritation and bad smell after her 2nd litter. She has never had problems before. The roo and rice cleared her up very quickly - the smell went almost immediately and skin healed quickly as well. She is back on dry food (now lamb & rice based) in the morning and cooked rice, vegies, & canned fish (mostly salmon) or chicken necks in the evenings. Her coat has never looked better.

[peibe]

Not considering introducing any other protein sources at this stage – still too early days. Thanks for your advice on the roo meat Peibe – I was checking it out in the supermarket yesterday thinking I might try it in a few weeks but now I will steer clear. Peibe is watery eyes after a meal an indication of an intolerance? Up until the diagnosis Rafa had quite happily tolerated beef, lamb, veal and pork. I do now however have suspicions of lamb and chicken. He hasn’t lost any fur, only about 1-2kg in weight. Weight loss has stabilised now the diaorehha has finished.

Definately the watery eyes are a sign of intolerance, I often get Shar Pei into foster care that have watery eyes, vets recommendation is eye surgery. After 2-3 weeks in care and a strict diet their eyes clear up.

Badboyz, I have 2 Shar Pei at home, one is able to eat anything, all red meat etc without a problem other than smellier skin and loose motions, I have found roo meat very gamey and it goes straight through them

The other cannot eat anything other than Advance Turkey and Rice Dry food, chicken carcass, necks, wings etc, and chicken mince, human grade, and fish. If I feed him roo, lamb, pork, beef or anything other than what is above he has watery poos, sore eyes, his fur falls out and goes oily and he stinks

Maybe leave Raf on the diet he is on for a few weeks and then try him on alittle roo, it worked for Badboyz??

I just feed Shar Pei a purely white meat diet, chicken, pork, turkey, vegetables, I do not feed rice often as it makes my bitch fat.

When you look into it China does not support a red meat industry and I think this is why so many pei have problems with diet

Feed him the way Chinese eat

I hope all is better soon, give Raf a cuddle from me

[peigirl]

Very interesting about the watery eyes Peibe. I have been giving Raf whole lamb shanks to eat since he was a little tacker - great because there the only thing that entertains him for 45 mins With out fail every time he'd finished one, his eyes would be streaming. Hmmmmmm I always thought it was strange but didn’t know what to attribute it too. Is this an indicator of an intolerance I wasn’t picking up

Still on watery eyes I have also noticed in the last few days Raf's eyes have been running immediately after he eats his turkey/rice meals. Following the same logic as the lamb now I'm wondering if the turkeys causing problems even though his stools have been improving every day? Yesterday's was the best one in weeks I've been listening to his stomach after he's eaten and there is a tiny bit of gurgling though barely audible.

I can also say with some confidence that I've found another intolerance - winter grass. Raf ate a stack this morning when he went out to the toilet. Vomited twice 15 mins later and then on our walk less than an hour later did a sloppy mucousy poo with fresh green undigested grass in it. It passed completely through his system in less than an hour! I was shocked ;) I will now be trailing him around the background as grass police. He's since had some turkey stock and rice, his gut is quiet and he's sleeping. Poor pup ;) He had been doing so well....

[peibe]

Do you feed him on the ground or elevated on a stool?

My girls eyes water if she is feed on the ground, but if I put her bowl up so she does not bend over her eyes are fine

Lamb is fatty and always makes her eyes run, lamb makes my boys poos gross

Have you thought that maybe it is grass? and not food at all?

I had a Shar Pei Sasha about 8 months ago and she had to be kept on cement because when she ate grass she vomited and got the runs

This must be so hard trying to work out what is wrong with him

Are the pads of his feet red? Actually between the pads? This will give you an indication of grass allergy.

ETA forgot to add, Pei graze like cows and eat far more grass than any dog I have ever meet. If he had a sore tummy, he would of eaten the grass to make himself sick, most dogs do this. The poo could be because his tummy was sore before he ate the grass ???does that make sense??

Edited August 12, 2006 by peibe

[peigirl]

Raf is always fed on the ground. I will find a stool and see what difference that makes? Strange that he doesnt get watery eyes all the time, just with certain meals?

As for the grass Raf is an inside dog - locked inside when I'm not home, so the only contact he gets with grass on a weekday would be twice a day at the park and probably about 1-2 hours a day in the backyard. Its 80% bricks in the backyard too so the grass contact is really just weeds and is minimal. The skin on his feet is completely normal aswell - white like the rest of his skin, not even pink and indicating slight inflammation???

Thinking he had a big grass feast last nite when he toileted before bed which created a gurgling tummy this morning so he ate more grass, vomitted and had a yucky poo. I really am just guessing tho, still feeling totally clueless as to the cause of the problem

Peibe what about shedding? I've noticed Raf has always (well last 6 months anyway) dropped alot of his coat. It has virtually stopped in the fortnight since he has been on the turkey diet. Do you think a food intolerance could cause shedding? I should add his coat is very glossy, he has never lost fur in clumps and he has no skin irrations whatsoever.

[Steve]

This is a link to a thread which was here a couple of years ago which may help

Julie

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...1entry891

[peibe]

How old is Raf? The last shed if it went for a long time would be his puppy coat falling out to be replaced by his adult coat

Pei normally only shed twice a year, but is is a good shed lol

If the shed was even no patches missing I would say it is normal

Still not sure about the grass, could be eating because he is sick or eating and it makes him sick, hard one

[peigirl]

Thanks Julie I will have a good read of that thread.

Peibe, Raf is 13 months. Hormones have kicked into gear in the last month or so, his bark has deepened and he has started trying his luck with girls at the dog park I have no idea if its coincidence or not but the reach in sexual maturity time wise has sort of coincided with the Colitis. His coat dropping has been all even. From the outside he's the picture of health, it’s what going on inside that's (seemingly) causing the problem.

I'm not sure about the grass either. Yesterday morning he passed the rest of the grass he ate on Saturday morning. His stomach hadn't broken it down at all. Will make sure he doesn’t ingest any for the next few days.

Peibe ever had any pei that didn’t do well on rice? Raf has been on turkey and rice for 15 days now and off his Metrogyl for a week. Thought I would have seen a bit more definite improvement by now. I thought I had before the weekend but now I’m unsure. Thinking I will change over to turkey and mashed potato in the next few days and see how we go. Do pei and potatoes work ok?

By the way I tried elevating his food bowl and his eyes are now fine after meals. Wish it was so easy to resolve the Colitis issue!

[peibe]

I cannot feed my Shar Pei girl rice, it makes her fat, gives her extremely bad gas and slightly runny poops

Grass often comes through my 2 whole they do not break it down

What about giving him the Turkey plain, no rice? Never used potatoes so cannot say.

When Zephyr went on his elimination diet the vet told me to feed him chicken and rice for 1 month, nothing else and then try other foods as it can take a month to clear their insides out

Glad the elevating his food bowl worked, thats great

13 months is a bad time for male pei, my boys problem intensified at that age, is Raf desexed? Zeph was and it made no difference. Coat sounds fine

Little by little you are getting somewhere

I had a rescue pup that had constant runny poops, yogurt cleared it up??

[peigirl]

Thanks Peibe. Last night I cooked rice and forgot to rinse it when I was finished. What is that white stuff that comes out of rice when you cook it? Name escapes me now - is it gluten?, anyhow Raf's belly was pretty gurgly after dinner which got me suspicious of the rice. So I will cut the rice and stick with just turkey for a few days and see what happens. In Raf's regular diet he had natural yogurt every other day so that will have to stay on my blacklist for now. Far out. I am learning a whole new kind of patience I never knew before the world of elimination diets.

Raf is not desexed. I wanted to wait til he was fully developed before I had the op. He injured his shoulder tendons a few months back so I was waiting until that healed and his system settled. That got better but then irregular poos began which turned into colitis. No way I am considering stressing his system even further by having him desexed before his gut is well and truly settled. He's not at all bad with boy antics at home - if anything he's mellowed slightly. Just trying on a bit of humping with girl dogs at the off leash park which he stops when I tell him to. Ok except for a pair of ex racing greyhound sisters who run alot faster than him, much to his dismay