kylieandpossum Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 This could be why your dog has the working traits that it does. Very interesting. I like the look of Koolies too. The colours have always fascinated me. this is a very good point, id never thought of that. she has a reputation from crossing her koolies with 'other dogs' which of course i didnt know about until afterwards, but i cant complain at all about poss. she is very small but a very big personality, just so much brain activity! (not all of it useful ) when i first got her people thought i had a border collie altho when you put the two together, esp pups, they are very different. so i call her a border koolie if you want to work with them id really recommend them, theyre great pets but great workers, if youve got the time and the backyard! (at two years old she has only just stopped ripping up the dripper system). i'd get another one for sure, although as i am getting older im thinking something a bit more sedate might be the go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 (edited) Here are some pics of Trim, she has quite a bit of eye, a tendancy to be a little tight and has a fair amount of presence. Edited November 22, 2006 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylieandpossum Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 Here are some pics of Trim, she has quite a bit of eye, a tendancy to be a little tight and has a fair amount of presence. shes beautiful vickie ....is she a border? and do they call it merle in the borders? (sorry probly stupid questions! ) where is she from, she looks like a blue moon (as in i have seen a blue moon that looks like her) if i were going to get a border it would be from there, just cos i hear they have great working ability. i can see why people think poss is a border, although trim looks a bit taller. i would kill for poss to have just a little bit of that stalking thing happening. do you trial with her at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShesaLikeableBiBear Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 This is Panda, a black and white sheltie, the sheep are Damara and more like goats in size mid October he hadnt been for a month and he was so excited to be back again he "bailed" one up against the fence and outcome was it fell on top of him, he was reasonably winded and has settled down more now. We have done the H.I.C. and in training for H.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShesaLikeableBiBear Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Sorry flood control in effect, will upload later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry's Mum Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 And here is Perry who is a long coated Koolie - I agree with Kylie that although both our dogs are often mistaken for borders they look different when you put them next to a border. Because Perry is a blue merle people always think I have a border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry's Mum Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 (edited) [a tachment=59047:attachment]And some more of Perry Edited November 22, 2006 by Perry's Mum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 (edited) shes beautiful vickie .... Thank you! LOL, I sometimes think if she wasn't so absolutely beautiful when she works, I'd be a better handler, I spend far too much time admiring her & not enough watching the sheep. is she a border? and do they call it merle in the borders? (sorry probly stupid questions! ) where is she from, she looks like a blue moon (as in i have seen a blue moon that looks like her) if i were going to get a border it would be from there, just cos i hear they have great working ability. Yes, yes and yes! i can see why people think poss is a border, although trim looks a bit taller. i would kill for poss to have just a little bit of that stalking thing happening. do you trial with her at all? Poss looks lovely, very pretty. How tall is she? Trim is quite small, she measures 495 for agility & weighs 15kg. I haven't trialled her. I am not going to do ANKC & she is not ready for 3 sheep. Honestly, we don't spend enough time on sheep. Agility is so much easier to train for...anywhere...anytime. Edited November 22, 2006 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesomil Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Ah, the beautiful Trim. She is a stunner. I have always admired the photos of her working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooper Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Trim is indeed a stunner I hope to see her in the fur one day. Jack will only tread gently like that over a field of bindii or on a frosty morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry's Mum Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 I think one of the major differences is that Koolies tend to work in a more upright fashion and don't creep in the way that border collies and kelpies do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShesaLikeableBiBear Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 (edited) Here is Panda, he works in an upright fashion. Edited November 22, 2006 by Hesapandabear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShesaLikeableBiBear Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 OOPPPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylieandpossum Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 I think one of the major differences is that Koolies tend to work in a more upright fashion and don't creep in the way that border collies and kelpies do. upright, yes that a very good way to put it! its like she doesnt have a lot of feel for the sheep unless they are moving - in fact that is the way she works by folding them in all the time. hence we have to stop the endless running around the sheep. someone had a 12 week old koolie pup on the weekend and we put it in and she showed plenty of interest but worked straight away a lot like possum, keep em moving, keep em going round. i am starting to see what that farmer meant by 'heat', its hard work for possum to just let the sheep be. i think perry is a bit like too a. and maybe even chance, tho i think he is a bit more sensitive. so it probly is a koolie thing. i have been able to scale most of it back down but its still there. i wonder why they were bred that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylieandpossum Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 OOPPPS i saw someone with a 4mthold sheltie take on a mob of sheep, it was hilarious, this tiny little fluffy thing barking its head off. how big is panda and how do the sheep react? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_Juke Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 This is a really interesting thread. My border collie seems to work a bit more like the koolies in this discussion. More upright, hardly any eye, very pushy and forceful and way too close. I have been working on getting him to work a bit more "off" the sheep. It seems to be easier to get him "off" the sheep more in a bigger paddock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayne Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 (edited) Hi, We have a Koolie and a BC, both of which are only 7 months old. They work in completely different ways. "Chance" (no relation to the other Chance listed) is a red merle Koolie. He works very very fast always running and seemingly tireless. This does stress the sheep out a bit and as Chance and I are both beginners we are working on slowing him down and stopping the constant barking. "Jenna" the BC is much slower, works wider and seems to have more "control" of the sheep. She works with eye and attitude rather than speed and noise. From watching Kelpies, BC's and Koolies all working 1 after the other I have noticed that BC's work wider and dash in for a nip every so often but generally have great control of the sheep through eye and personality. Kelpies stalk and eye as well but tend to work closer to the sheep and are more fond of moving than standing still like a BC. They are also more vocal. Koolies are like dogs on speed. They love the work, but treat it more as a game. They still get the job done but seem to need the sheep to do something at all times and don't like them to be still. They seldom stalk or directly eye the sheep and are fond of body slamming rather than nipping. Mind you these are my own views as a beginner and should not at all be taken as gospel. Adam P.S. We are going out to have some fun this weekend so I will try to get picks of different dogs to demonstrate what i mean. Edited November 23, 2006 by Kayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 (edited) Oh..I do like this thread! We have our own "bush-bred" workers..Koolie predominately,with a helping of kelpie .Will post pics of some of our crew later. At the moment we have a team- mum, daughter , and grand-daughter who work well together Ours are specific to requirements in this part of the world. VERY short coat for coolness and to avoid getting prickles and sticks tangled. LONG legs...they have to run many many miles in the paddocks , and be able to see over bushes and tall grass ( when there is rain) DARK pigmented pads/noses/ear tips/ eyelids where possible, to avoid sun damage, and blisters from the hot sand. "EYE" ..to help control these very strong-willed merinos. Low body sensitivity....don't want sooks deciding that being stepped on or butted is no fun! Also when used for goat yarding, a lack of worry about pain is a must!! Goats don't act in a polite manner at all! GOOD independent thinking...our dogs are sometimes left in sole control of large mobs of sheep for a couple of hours..while humans are off mustering or preparing yards etc. The dogs need to keep calm, and keep the sheep moving in the direction pointed out Also when putting sheep thru yards and races, the dog needs to see what is required..if the sheep are slowing, if a race is too empty... Our dogs are worked according to what they prefer. We have ones which are 90% yard , and some 90% paddock We also have a couple multi-taskers. Our old yard dog of excellence is retired now..sadly..but his son has taken over, and now at age 3 is just starting to show his thinking and reasoning :)He has to be muzzled unfortunately..he hasn't the patience of his dad, and will nip...but is very good at what he does! The property on which they are working at the moment is shearing over 10,000 sheep..so there is a lot of work for everyone!! I do love the look on that "Trim" !! Beautiful approach Edited November 23, 2006 by persephone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesomil Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Jack will only tread gently like that over a field of bindii or on a frosty morning This is very interesting about the Koolies. It seems that they dont use eye and are fairly fast and furious. I find the kelpies fairly pushy too, but they use eye and can be taught to settle down and work the sheep well. Maybe the Koolies have origins in cattle work where i would think they would need to be pushy and noisy. Maybe they are more naturally dogs that drive instead of head. I would like to see one work one day. On the topic of borders and Kelpies, i said before that i thought borders were more paddock and kelpie more yard. This doesnt mean that the kelpie cant do paddock work and the border cant do yard stuff but i guess it is just their strong points. That is why there is quite a division of breeds in yard or 3 sheep trials. But there are heaps of dogs out there being all rounders on farms. I went to a Greg Prince workshop last year (best ever) and he has borders. He noted that alot of borders will not back sheep naturally wheras kelpies will jump up like they were born to. I think borders work a little more off the sheep. But like anything there will be certain dogs in a breed that will show different traits but i am just generalising here. I think genetics play a huge part in a dogs capability. You can have two red kelpies standing side by side that look identical, but have different breeding. One may work hard and fast and be a real yardy type dog and the other may work like a border, out wide and more paddocky. There are so many different lines. I wanted a dog to compete in yard trials so i went to a breeder that has really good yard dogs and got exactly the traits i was after. I wouldnt have been able to just get any kelpie and guarantee the same results. A dogs breeding means everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayne Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 I think genetics play a huge part in a dogs capability. You can have two red kelpies standing side by side that look identical, but have different breeding. One may work hard and fast and be a real yardy type dog and the other may work like a border, out wide and more paddocky. There are so many different lines. Quote ^^^^^ (Not sure how to do it properly) Funny you should say that, Chance was farm bred to work cattle. I wonder if a "sheep bred" Koolie would work differently... Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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