Trini Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Hi all First time poster here, reading everyone else's post it's been great, thanks for all your help! We have a 13 week old border collie x kelpie x schipperke. We have had her for 2 and a half weeks and everything else is going great. She sits and drops no problem. She goes on her bed when asked and understands no when she is biting. She has the most beautiful nature and we love her to bits! The hardest thing I am finding is that she cries and whines when we get home. She is fine with us leaving her but as soon as we walk in the door she cries and whines. The neighbours have said she is fine during the day. We have been ignoring her, we have tried leaving and coming back as suggested. She now jumps at the door, scratching and yelping. Once she is calm we go outside and play with her and take her for a walk but it seems to go on for at least half hour. Then when we come back inside she starts all over again. She comes inside at night after tea for a little while. Should we stop this? I understand she wants to see us and have pats and walks and play but i would have thought she would be getting better by now not worse. Can anyone tell me how long I can expect this and any hints on how to help ease this on both her and us? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 In my opinion, it bears no relevance whether the dog is an inside or outside dog. I would be more interested to hear about how you manage the dog on a day to day basis in terms of leadership. Do you find the dog is demanding for attention at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trini Posted November 23, 2006 Author Share Posted November 23, 2006 No not at all. She will happily play with her toys while we are around, either inside or out. The worst I have found is that she sometimes bites at our ankles and pulls on our clothes. When she does we tell her to sit, which she does around 80% of the time or she keeps on doing it so then we turn around and ignore her, then she usually sits. Only a couple of times she hasn't stopped and we have said no and put her outside or we have gone inside, but generally she is pretty good with that sort of thing. At night once she is settled and not crying we usually take her for a min 30 min walk and then do some training when we come home (working on come and stay atm) Perhaps it could be because we do do these things with her after work she knows it's coming? Perhaps I'm looking at it wrong, perhaps it's more of an excited cry than a stressful one? I don't know, I just want her to be happy! We will be going to obedience training. It starts in 2 weeks time and I was going to ask them about it but I'm worried that it is causing unnecessary anxiety for her so thought I would ask everyone here to try and find a solution before then. We feed her around half an hour before we leave for work and we watch her after she has eaten and she runs around with her toys or plays with her Kong and she doesn't come to the door then, only when we get home. Not sure if I have answered your question SAS but that is a typical day in our household! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toohey Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Hi Trini, is she doing this when you come home after she has been alone all day? Sounds like she is just terribly excited to see you and wants to be with you. Is there any reason why you would be ignoring her when you come home instead of spending time with her? Why not just spend the time with her as soon as you come home and then let her settle, which she will probably do far more readily if she has greeted you and got it all out of her system? My dogs go crazy when I come home from work. There is no way I could leave them out there barking and squealing. Would drive the neighbours nuts! I let them straight in, and after about ten minutes of madness they settle down again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whateverr Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 i agree spike goes all crazy when i get home and he barks and whines at me and jumps all over the place.. so you are not alone.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trini Posted November 23, 2006 Author Share Posted November 23, 2006 We did that for the first couple of days but then from what I had been reading it said not to or it will encourage her. believe me, if it means I can go straight out there I will, I just thought that it would be encouraging bad behaviour. If you guys think it's ok then that is great for both of us! Then after writing this I put her outside last night for a bit and she didn't come to the door once. Perhaps she read my post! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toohey Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 Trini, I think you might have been reading about separation stress, which is when you are unable to leave your pup AT ALL, without having them get upset and crying. Training methods to stop her crying in that situation, might include ignoring her when you are home until she stops crying. Your pup sounds like a champion if she is behaving so well at only 13 weeks. If she is being quiet when you are not home, she definitely does not have separation stress. If that was me I would be straight out the door and tell her how good she has been and give her as many cuddles as you like as soon as you come home. Don't forget she is only a baby, and is doing very well if she is coping all day without having anyone around. Give her a cuddle for me. I bet she is gorgeous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 I agree with Toohey. Also remember that it is not normal for a puppy to be on it's own so of course she is going to be excited and want to spend time with you. You are her pack. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akitaowner Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 sonds like you have got it sorted but i have found it can be controlled aswell - my 2 can get a be overexcited when i get home - not just dancing around talking but sometimes they jump up and carry on at which point i stand up and wait for them to settle before touching them again. i have recently moved and have glass doors so they can see in - if they carry on i stand in front of the door but wont open it - the minute they behave i go out - it doesnt take too long before you have them sat busting to jump around at the back door when you get home...but i do go straight out to them normally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 Hi Trini,is she doing this when you come home after she has been alone all day? Sounds like she is just terribly excited to see you and wants to be with you. Is there any reason why you would be ignoring her when you come home instead of spending time with her? Why not just spend the time with her as soon as you come home and then let her settle, which she will probably do far more readily if she has greeted you and got it all out of her system? My dogs go crazy when I come home from work. There is no way I could leave them out there barking and squealing. Would drive the neighbours nuts! I let them straight in, and after about ten minutes of madness they settle down again. Ignoring a dog for at least 5 minutes when coming home can show a dog that on your arrival back to the home that you're still the leader, this type of training can put a stop to mild aniexty and unacceptable behaviours pretty fast. It's not about ignoring the dog all night, just for the first 5 minutes. If you're happy to give into your dogs when they're excited and not calm that's up to you and what you're happy with, however in this case we're talking about a young dog that is showing some issues. By doing the ignore training your dogs would learn within a week to be calm before entering the house so you're neighbours would be much happier going forward. A dog being over excited when you come home isn't a terribly positive thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 Trini, I think you might have been reading about separation stress, which is when you are unable to leave your pup AT ALL, without having them get upset and crying.Training methods to stop her crying in that situation, might include ignoring her when you are home until she stops crying. Your pup sounds like a champion if she is behaving so well at only 13 weeks. If she is being quiet when you are not home, she definitely does not have separation stress. If that was me I would be straight out the door and tell her how good she has been and give her as many cuddles as you like as soon as you come home. Don't forget she is only a baby, and is doing very well if she is coping all day without having anyone around. Give her a cuddle for me. I bet she is gorgeous In training terms, that would be the completely wrong thing to do, it is rewarding the dog for behaviour that is not calm and is encouraging it. What you've said goes against leadership training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamuzz Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 With our dogs we follow a middle path. Yes they get excited when we get home, but they have to sit before we let them in. The trainer told us that giving a command that in effect takes the dog's mind off carrying on was probably the least stressful method of dealing with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toohey Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 (edited) In training terms, that would be the completely wrong thing to do, it is rewarding the dog for behaviour that is not calm and is encouraging it. What you've said goes against leadership training. I am not advising on training issues, I am suggesting to Trini that if her baby puppy has been alone in the yard all day, she should not be ignored when someone eventually comes home. If you disagree with that, fine. I manage my dogs in a way that works for me, and am very happy with my well behaved, happy, and well adjusted dogs, who, BTW, know very well that I am the leader in this house. however in this case we're talking about a young dog that is showing some issues. it's a baby who has been on her own all day! Edited November 24, 2006 by Toohey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 (edited) Toohey, That exactly right....what works for you. The puppy is a dog and not a 'baby' puppy. Giving this dog the right start will save hastles down the track. 'it's a baby who has been on her own all day" This is humanising a dog and this is where issues occur. I'm not saying don't treat your dog like that, many people do and have well balanced dogs, not all dogs are well balanced and generally puppies aren't, they need boundaries and why wouldn't you get this out of the way whilst they are a puppy rather than when they're adult dog with ingrained behaviours. I'm simply saying in terms of training & leadership giving a dog attention whilst it is not conforming is encouraging bad behaviours. Each to their own but I don't think it's fair to give a newbie with a puppy advice that goes against what most books and trainers suggest to do. Edited November 24, 2006 by sas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toohey Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 Each to their own but I don't think it's fair to give a newbie with a puppy advice that goes against what most books and trainers suggest to do. Well, perhaps I should refrain from giving advice here in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 *shrugs* If that's the way you feel. You obviously disagree with what I said from a training & leadership point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trini Posted November 25, 2006 Author Share Posted November 25, 2006 Thanks everyone for your input. Sorry I didn't mean to cause issues between any of you! Akita owner (btw they are a beautiful dog!) we have the same, big double glass sliding door so she can see us everytime we walk past. Sometimes she is happy to just watch us as we go past, others she will whine and cry. But when she stays quiet I will usually go over and let her in or go out to her. Hubby and I were talking on the way home from work and looks like we came up with a middle of the road of all your advice. What we decided to do is change out of our work clothes, greet the cats (this is normal routine) then go to her at the door and tell her to sit and quiet before going out/ letting her in. We tried it last night and it was good, she curled up on my lap outside and was happy to be patted. When I went inside again she started crying but it was only for a couple of minutes then she started to play with her toys so hopefully this is a good sign! We will try this for the next week or so and see how she goes, if this doesn't work we will try a different approach. It's been 13 years since my old girl was a puppy and then I was only 12 so I'm having to remember a lot of things! Plus my other dog was a digger and didn't whine, this time it's the other way round! My other dog lives with my parents, she had someone home and didn't think it was fair to bring her to our home where she wouldn't be used to no one here. Maybe once we have Trini trained and under control I might be able to convince hubby to get her a friend ( I don't think we could train 2 at once!) I know I'm biased but yeah she is pretty gorgeous! Thanks again all your help made it clearer for me to think and see all aspects so hopefully this will work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florise Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 There are plenty of ways you can demonstrate leadership, apart from ignoring a young puppy who is excited to see her family coming home. Sure, make the puppy sit and stop making noise, but don't give her less time than she deserves because that's what you read in a book and you think that is the right thing to do! A lot of how you raise your dog will depend on that individual dog, so use your instincts to determine what you think is acceptable behaviour. giving a dog attention whilst it is not conforming is encouraging bad behaviours. The best part of my day, is coming home to happy excited dogs, who want to see me as much as I want to see them. No way would I ignore them because of what some regimental training book said. And no way would I call happiness and excitement "bad behaviours". 'it's a baby who has been on her own all day" This is humanising a dog and this is where issues occur. 13 weeks is actually a baby puppy, in show terms anyway. Using that term is not humanising, it describes the age group of the dog. Don't forget this pup has gone from being surrounded by lots of company recently, and it is a big shift to find themselves alone in the yard all day. At that age they still need extra care, extra feeds, and to know that someone will be home sooner, rather than later.Anyway, Trini enjoy your dog, she sounds like a sweetheart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOE Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 mt 3 gsd's have done the same since day 1 no noise when I leave nor through the day but when I come home they squeal in excitement. Afternoon routine here is I get in the gate walk through the house open the back door and let them in. Alls quiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Thanks everyone for your input. Sorry I didn't mean to cause issues between any of you! You didn't, it's cool Everyone agreeing would be less interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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