whatevah Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 My husband and I are interested in Learning Herding using Tia, just wondering who I can get lessons from. I don't want to use harsh methods as just doing it for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres my rock Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 herding guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 I would suggest watching as much herding as you can before you start using Tia. Is it possible for you to go & watch some of her family work? That will give you a great idea of how her lines work & what to expect when you start using her. Honestly I'm not sure herding works "for fun". Try telling some dogs it is just for fun. If they take it very seriously (as they should) then I think we owe it to them to do the same. That doesn't mean you have to trial or give up the rest of your life to do it, I just always object to the word "fun" on so many levels. Not sure what you mean by "harsh" methods, but often the method will need to fit the dog. I don't believe you can be purely positive with dogs who have instinct, but you can certainly use the work as the reward as much as possible. As with many other things, there need to be consequences if your dog does the wrong thing. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevah Posted December 30, 2006 Author Share Posted December 30, 2006 I meant I don't want to use exceptionally harsh methods, where you end up breaking the dog's spirit in the process. As for fun, well I don't own a farm, and do not need her to herd sheep. So if it doesn't work out it won't be the end of the world. I do obedience, flyball and agility for fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShesaLikeableBiBear Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 Here: http://www.vca.org.au/Content.asp?ID=105&SubID=124 Down the bottom under future they list some clubs, so perhaps contact them?. And here: http://forums.dogzonline.com.au/index.php?showtopic=85702 Go along to the event to meet some herding people and find out if they do lessons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superminty Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 I dabble in herding. My dogs will never work on a farm. Therefore I go herding "for fun". My dogs certainly have fun. And they are quite serious. The two aren't mutually exclusive. CTD: Herding guy is off-line for the most part at the moment. PM me if you want his details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevah Posted December 30, 2006 Author Share Posted December 30, 2006 Thanx for your help, any good organisations to join? I have heard that Warragul does herding. Josh my flatcoat doesn't enjoy obedience so I don't do it, but he enjoys flyball, my toller loves lure coursing, flyball and obedience. So will see if she likes it or not. I have not done any herding whatsoever so a new learning curve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShesaLikeableBiBear Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 CTD, the initial question will be do they have the instinct?. Given that they are not working dogs they may not, good luck though and hope you find somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevah Posted December 30, 2006 Author Share Posted December 30, 2006 To me she seems to have instinct the way I see her interacting with other dogs and our chooks. Other people have commented as well. But if she doesn't then it is not the end of the world and we will try something else. No use batting on with something if the dog is not cut out for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangwyn Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 CTD, the initial question will be do they have the instinct?. Given that they are not working dogs they may not, good luck though and hope you find somewhere. I think you might be a bit confused by CTD discussing their gundog breeds. I believe Tia is actually a Border Collie so, depending on her bloodline, she certainly has more chance of succeeding at herding than a Flatcoat! Tangwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevah Posted January 1, 2007 Author Share Posted January 1, 2007 Yes I was considering it for Tia, (border collie) definately not for my gundogs. LOL :D) We used to have a pet sheep and Josh would run up to it and give it licky licks. LOL ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooper Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 To me she seems to have instinct the way I see her interacting with other dogs and our chooks. Other people have commented as well. But if she doesn't then it is not the end of the world and we will try something else. No use batting on with something if the dog is not cut out for it. That sounds like the right attitude to have, CTD. Despite early encouragement from local sheepdog enthusiasts, farmers and trainers, my dog's instincts don't seem to extend beyond chasing. But I wouldn't have known that unless we'd given it a go. It is fun, but in our case, the sheep are running a marathon while Jack plays chasies and that's not what it's about. Likewise, you won't know of Tia's potential until you try! Btw, how old is Tia? If she's still only young, it may be worth auditing at a sheepdog school and letting her see the sheep through the fence to build a bit of interest. The next time, the trainer may suggest walking through a round yard with her on lead, so she can see a few sheep close up. Atleast, those have been my observations at sheepdog schools when someone brings a pup with them. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShesaLikeableBiBear Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 My PROFUSE apologies, I didnt realise that Tia was a B/C. SORRY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Hey CTD Hope you guys had a good Christmas/New Year. I'm of the same sort of mind as Vickie. Unlike all the other dog activities that I've done, 'herding' (working stock) involves other animals, whose welfare IMHO is absolutely paramount. For that reason, I feel uncomfortable about thinking of stock work as something to do 'for fun'. I know you didn't mean anything bad by that - just had to get on my soap box for a moment. As far as methods - you know I'm a user of positive methods - but when it comes to the welfare of stock, there may have to be immediate unpleasant consequences for the dog. As far as possible, in a good training situation, there will be sufficient control that the dog does not get into too much trouble - the old 'set up for success', and as Vickie says - as far as possible a good trainer will use negative punishment (withdrawal of stock), with appropriate behaviour being rewarded by access to stock. I had the opportunity to do some sheep work with Kirra, and she passed her HIT. At first she was getting into some bad habits, but then I went to train with a friend on her sheep farm, and we did a lot of learning through work. As a result, Kirra and I became handy enough to be useful as assistant farm hands. I absolutely loved the opportunity to learn about sheep, and to work sheep with my dog - but, partly as a result of that, and partly because of the amount of training pressure I would have to exert on her to do herding trial work, I've stayed right away from any sort of herding trials. Best advice I could give you if you want to do some stock work - is learn as much about sheep as you can, and if you get the opportunity, go and watch or even help someone who has sheep. The more you can learn about sheep, their flight zones, how they move, how they react to pressure etc., the more you'll be able to help your dog to be in the right place and do the right thing. I'll PM you the name of a guy I had the chance to have a lesson with that I really liked. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevah Posted January 4, 2007 Author Share Posted January 4, 2007 Of course the sheep's safety comes first. I used to have a pet sheep. She had a better recall than the dog and I wondered why people did herding, couldn't they just call the sheep in. She used to come in for her pellets. My sheep was boss at home, she put Moses in his place as soon as he arrived by head butting him. He once tried to head butt her back, and then she head butted him. My sheep used to love being patted under the arm pits and she looked like she was stoned. I just don't want to use overly aggressive methods whereas I lose the relationship with my dog, and my dog doesn't want anything to do with me. Of course if the dog went for a sheep I would tell her off. I did that to Moses when he ran a snatched a lollipop out of a little girls hand and ate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I had a pet sheep too - called Lambsie of course - what else. He actually thought he was a dog, since he spent most of his life with my previous dogs. He liked to ride in the car too - he rode in the back of the station wagon when we went to a friend's place to get him shorn - used to get some funny looks from other motorists when they saw him in the wagon with the two dogs! My sheep dog trainer friend used to do sheep dog trials - she explained one of the problems with 3 sheep trials is that sheep have 3 possible responses to threat - fight, flight or freeze - and if you get really unlucky, your 3 trial sheep will give you all three responses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Regarding sheep dog trials, which have always interested me, are the sheep "paddock/basically unhandled sheep" except when sheared. I recently saw a few demonstrations, and the sheep seemed more trained, than the dogs. Mind you, these were at public venues. Years ago I went to a working dog trial and was very impressed with the whistle control. I see working dogs, at retrieving trial sites where our tests are held, and all seem well trained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 LL, at 3 sheep trials - the traditional ones - the sheep can vary considerably from trial to trial. At some trials they may be 'killers' - making a detour on their way to the abbattoir. Some of those can be really nasty to dogs - guess they figure they've got nothing to lose! Ideally, they would be an even mob of sheep who would have been worked - maybe by dogs - as part of normal farm operations - so maybe about 4 or 5 times a year. They are likely only to have been worked as a large mob, so being 3 sheep alone with a dog would be totally new to them. They will usually not have seen the obstacles - although they will have been yarded and put through a race as part of farming operations. Sheep used for training novice dogs, and maybe for demonstrations, are more likely to be 'dog-broke' to a greater or lesser extent. With a novice dog and a novice hadnler, it's useful if at least the sheep know what they're supposed to be doing. Really dog-broke training sheep are likely to be "knee-knockers" - they will head for the handler, thus making it easy for the trainee dog to hold sheep to the handler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 (edited) Thankyou for your reply Tassie. If I was not so wrapped up in retrieving trials, I would try herding. I remember with great fondness, watching baby pups outside yards. One had sheep another ducks. The pups eyes!!!!!, their natural ability so young. Fantasic. Good grief, edited again. I am having a normal bad brainless typing day. LOL Edited January 5, 2007 by Lablover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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