Shakti Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 My GSD taught us how to make him retrieve LOL He loves chasing balls, sticks etc and he happily brings them back to us...well, almost! He stands about three feet from us and hurls the stick at our shins! VERY effective as my OH swears and immediately grabs the stick and throws it away again! If we ignore the dog or confiscate his toy he will throw rocks, a a laundry basket or eanything alse that isnt nailed down and hurl it at our legs - very painful! How can I get him to sit and hold the article until I take it from him? I am fearing that it will be a matter of going right back to the start and re-teaching him but would be very grateful for any suggestions or tips please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakti Posted January 6, 2007 Author Share Posted January 6, 2007 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Ouch! But somehow funny Can you trade him for another toy/stick/ball/tug toy to get him in closer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakti Posted January 6, 2007 Author Share Posted January 6, 2007 Yeah good thought but then he just flings harder in order to get us to release the new one! He is happy to come to us with it - but frankly at 2 feet his aim is pretty lethal already!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Ummm does he know gentle or anything like that? Maybe wait? lol sorry I'm picturing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 If it was my dog, i would ignore him if he "threw" something at me. When playing fetch and he comes up and throws it immediately walk inside or put him outside whichever one, leave him for about 10 minutes and try again. As he has already learnt that you will throw it for him if he throws it at you it will take awhile to break that habit. Keep persisting until he learns that is not the correct way to behave. Once he has learnt better then you can go and retrain how to accept the toy, ive taught one of my boys to put the ball in my hand otherwise it doesnt get thrown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakti Posted January 6, 2007 Author Share Posted January 6, 2007 It is kind of funny I must admit BUT!!!!! Thanks Tollersowned. I know it is going to be really hard to break him of this habit as it has been about six months now and it has been constantly reinforced by my OH *sigh* OH well ignoring it will work in the long run I am sure - can I start trying to retrain him at the same time or will that just confuse him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 (edited) You could, when he does it right praise him and throw it again. Does he do it everytime he brings it too you? If he does you will need to ignore him to at least get him to the stage of not throwing it at you. When he gets excited though it may arise, best to just ignore until it eventually goes away. Good luck.....im still trying to picture it lol Edited January 6, 2007 by tollersowned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevah Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Do you have it on video? Would love to see it. What about changing to a safer retrieving article such as a soft toy, sticks aren't good anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 (edited) Good point tollerowned If he flings it at you pick it up and walk off telling him no more Whats it called? negative reinforcement (i always get them mixed up, i mean when you withold the reward as the correction lol) Edited January 6, 2007 by shoemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 (edited) Whats it called? negative reinforcement (i always get them mixed up, i mean when you withold the reward as the correction lol) Negative punishment = punishing the dog by taking something good away. Negative reinforcement = rewarding the dog by taking something bad away. ETA: Have you tried backing up your training and getting your dog to sit in front of you and "take" and then "give"? Hold the item yourself at first and incrementally step it up so you can remove your hand with dog still holding. Teach your dog to relinquish only when you put your hand out for it and that he must relinquish only to your hand to receive ultimate reward. Edited January 6, 2007 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Wear cricket pads Seriously, I'd go back to reteaching 'Come'...using a treat reward when he comes. BUT hold the treat against the side of your leg, so he learns 'Come' means to come right up to you...BESIDE your leg. Get him really good at this. Then when you throw something for him to fetch...give the 'Come' command & he'll be used to coming right up beside your leg, with whatever. Rather than stopping a couple of feet away & chucking the whatever at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Thanks Erny, negative punishment, that makes more sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakti Posted January 7, 2007 Author Share Posted January 7, 2007 Yes Thanks Erny et al! You guys are brilliant!! Will definitely be swapping to a softer article - on the other hand, he will grab ANYTHING (even a pool cover!!) if he wants to retrieve!! But yes I will also be reteaching him the other commands as suggested! His Recall is wonderful except he/we haven't made the connection that it is also used when he is in Crazed Beckham mode!! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangwyn Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Hi Brooke, My Golden Retriever used to do this. I didn't get him til he was 12 months old and he had a few (well ALOT) of bad habits. Since I wanted to do Retrieving Trials with him the quality of his retrieve was pretty important! I used a number of methods to sure up his retrieve. The easiest one is to put the dog on a long cord and reel him in if need be. Praise when he gets to you with the toy/retrieve article, give lots and lots of praise, and don't take the article off him immediately. If he drops it as he's being reeled in - no biggy - don't praise, give him a time out (I took his toy and went inside the house and waited for a minute or two). I NEVER allowed the dog to immediately do another retrieve unless the one he had just completed was acceptable. In many dogs' minds the retrieve (or chase) is very rewarding so it is very easy to re-inforce unacceptable behaviour by perpetuating the game. Every time the dog throws something else at you go inside and leave him on his own. He'll soon learn that bombarding you with inanimate objects leads to "Game Over". And if all else fails there's always the Force Fetch! (ducks for cover ) Hope this helps Tangwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Brooke, Take heart, I encourage my youngsters to do what your GSD is doing not only creating good habits (fast recall etc) . The last things I "ask" for is an obedience type sit (in front) and delivery. Break the concepts down and your problem will be fixed. You could try a variety of fun type exercises, running away etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 K9: I will have the dog retrieve an article so that it can "buy" the reward off me. I find that when you send away the dog to fetch the reward, it can create a "conflict" that can be hard to resolve. As you are picking up the reward & then throwing it, the dog has learned to "field", this means he is on the way to where he thinks you will throw the reward. I would be training him as I have showed you, teaching the bring back then the send away & swapping for the reward, this will sort your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Hi all, Id try teaching the "take and give " as a seperate exercise...Once he has got that then try to join the 2 together.Once your dog will "take" the article then Id say "hold" and gently apply pressure to the top and bottom jaw...With tonnes of praise.Once you have got it with him sitting in front of you then try it moving...So if he is running towards you , say "hold" and make sure you only take it from thier mouth...never pick it up from the ground , if he wants you to have it he will give it to you !! I hope this helps , my GS did something very similar as a pup(very frustrating) but she now retrieves the dumbell beautifully... Cheers Brock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevah Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Thats interesting "field" because that's what Moses does all the time. It is hilarious. At the dog park, shoemonster has seen this, if he is in a group situation, he works out where the ball is going to be thrown and just goes out about 20m and waits there so he can beat the other dogs to it. Hilarious. With Josh as a youngster, when he didn't deliver to hand I would walk away from the ball, then he would go and get it and bring it to me. At the moment I am teaching my pup the shirley chong clicker retrieve, we are up to the step where she picks up a dumbell and places it in my hand, I can see that she really wants to pick it up and walk away with it, but I don't reward that. I am also working on another style with a tennis ball, which I have learnt from the Springloaded DVD, (flyball club). Whenever she has the ball in her mouth I play push away games, and get her to chase me with it in her mouth and do a tiny tug with it still in her mouth and then more games. I do it first thing in the morning when she has the most energy and in the hallway where there are no distractions at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 My suggestions:- I agree with Brock. Teach the actual 'give' as a separate exercise. Use something other than a toy or stick. Use a dumbell. Sit in the lounge in the ad breaks when you're watching tv, have some treats. Go 'take', 'hold', 'give' in that order, then reward on the 'give'. That's what I was taught and boy, it works well. My dog saw the dumbell as separate and NEVER tried to hold onto it even though she wouldn't hand back toys in the park. Interestingly, I had the identical problem from a pup with toys and balls and you can get over it . I posted elsewhere a method of fixing this that was taught to me by a wonderful trainer down here in Vic. Get two or three balls, toys, whatever you are throwing in the park. When he comes back, you 'covet' the one you are holding because in his mind, yours will always be better than his. Ignore his. Then restart the game with yours. Try running backwards as he approaches with the ball, before he drops the ball. Don't make it a conflict situation or show tension, keep it super fun. Share the toys but you are still in charge by starting the game always, not him. You end the game before he wants to, so you are in charge again. This worked so well with my GSD bitch that now she races up with the ball in her mouth and gives it to me (most times!!!) and we just can play with one ball or any other item she chooses. Good luck, one of the suggestions people have put here will surely work for you :D I loved K9s thoughts, makes you look at what is happening when you are throwing differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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