Abdominal Fluid

[nrm1]

Hi everyone,

I'm fairly new here. I've posted a couple of times but typically just read the topics with interest and have found that everyone here has really good advice and you're all really caring and sympathetic when it comes to sick animals.

Anyway I was hoping I could get some points of view.

My 11 yr old westie has a liver tumor which is producing fluid and the result is a huge tight tummy, made worse by the fact that he's actually lost a lot of weight. The vet has said that he can drain the fluid but is reluctant because it can sometimes cause dehydration and is a very short term solution. Instead he's on diuretics which are doing nothing.

Although Charlie seems happy enough the big tummy looks like it would be causing discomfort. The vet says he wouldn't be in a huge amount of pain but would feel extremely bloated. A horrible feeling, I know. He's also finding it difficlt to walk and lays around a lot or king of waddles when he wants to get around.

So my question is, would you insist on the vet draining the fluid or would you leave him be?

FYI, because of his age we've decided not to put him through anything to try and prolong his life just for our benefit ie no chemo or invasive surgery. Really tough decision to make. So I want to do everything I can to make him comfortable and happy while he's with us.

Thanks in anticipation.

Nadine.

[Staffyluv]

I would want my dog to have quality of life and if draining his tummy would make him more comfortable, then I think I would be asking for it to be done....

Obviously you would have to weigh up the pros and cons of having something like this done - it may need to be done more than once... I would be asking things like, what are the chances of infection and how bad would the dehydration get - would he need to be on a drip to rehydrate???

A few things to consider but I know for our lad, who has mast cell cancer, it is all quality of life...

Cheers and good luck

Jodie

[Florise]

I'd have it drained. It's a simple procedure and will make him more comfortable. Probably just short term relief for him though, it will no doubt accumulate again over time..

If he is well hydrated to begin with it shouldn't make too much difference, after all the fluid is coming from his abdomen, and not being taken from the rest of his body.

I'm sorry for your situation and he is lucky to have such a caring owner.

edit to add, the lasix is more likely to cause overall dehydration than the fluid being drained from his tummy. Drain the fluid and stop the lasix is what I would do.

Edited February 2, 2007 by xavier

[~Anne~]

I am not a vet nor qualified in veterinary (or any kind of medicine) science and these views are purely my personal views.

Is the fluid in the abdominal cavity or actually in his stomach?

If it is in the cavity then I would probably think draining would be best. Wouldn't septicemea be an issue of it is sitting for too long under the skin???

I recall once when a dog with heart disease came into our surgery on several occassions to be drained. He would blow up with fluid in his abdominal cavity. The Vet would simply stick the biggest gauge long needle in and syringe as much as he could out to relive the dogs discomfort.

He was also put on diruetics and this eventually held the problem at bay until he died.

Perhaps a second opinion from another Vet is warranted to ensure the treatment is correct?

[Florise]

Is the fluid in the abdominal cavity or actually in his stomach?

It's peritoneal fluid, it's called ascites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascites

Edited February 2, 2007 by xavier

[~Anne~]

It's peritoneal fluid, it's called ascites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascites

Thanks for the link.

[aniangel]

i would recommend draining his belly, very simple procedure, won't need an anaesthetic and it will make him feel a whole lot better. i have seen similar situations as a vet nurse where animals have come in for an abdo or thoracic drain every week to keep them comfy until the time comes to say goodbye....

[nrm1]

Thanks everyone.

Charlie is booked in on Monday although he'll be having an anaesthetic and will be in all day. Not sure if I'm comfortable with that. Im already panicking that he won't pull through given his age etc.

Lynne, any ideas why this would be different to the procedure you mentioned with no anaesthetic that cna be done weekly? Do you have any more info? Name of the procedure maybe, so that I can ask my vet about it.

Thanks

[Toohey]

Hi Nadine, I'm sorry to hear about Charlie.

The procedure he needs is called an abdominal paracentesis and it will help him breathe easier and feel much more comfortable.

I would not think it needs a general anaesthetic. Perhaps your vet is a little inexperienced and feels there would be more control and safety doing it under general.

All that is required is a large needle to the abdomen, and shouldn't upset him too much. How brave is he usually? Maybe the vet has his reasons for giving a general.

[Toohey]

Another thought, with his liver the way it is, he would be much better off NOT having a general. If you consider that his liver has to metabolise the drugs that are needed to put him to sleep and keep him asleep, and it is already compromised by his disease.

Have another chat to the vet and if you are not 100% confident that Charlie is in the best possible hands, I'd be looking to another vet.

[nrm1]

Thanks for the advice.

I've never had any problems at the vet, groomer etc. Charlie is very placid in such situations. I'll definitely be having a talk to the vet before anything is done.

[Toohey]

Nadine, I hope all goes well tomorrow for you both. Fingers crossed for your boy.

[nrm1]

Hi everyone,

When I took Charlie to the vet this morning we decided against draining the fluid. He had a diuretic injection and I brought him home. Unless he makes a dramatic recovery, which he hasn't, we have an appointment for 9am tomorrow morning to put him to sleep. I'm devastated. So much so that I've asked my ex boyfriend to come along with me tomorrow because I can't go alone. I already know that I'm not gong to cope well.

A friend asked me what I'm going to do afterwards. Sorry to sound stupid but I have no idea. I've never been through this before and it never even crossed my mind. What happens once he goes? God that sounds so dumb. Sorry!!!!

[Toohey]

I'm so sorry to hear this Nadine. I have not yet had to put a dog to sleep, the very idea fills me with dread... I can't offer any advice.

My cat had a nasty cancer a few months back, and letting her go was completely and utterly heartbreaking. I cried for weeks.

Take your boyfreind with you, you will need the support.... as far afterwards, I don't know either. I guess you just have to mourn him, for as long as it takes, and eventually you will be ready to move on and think about sharing your life with another dog, though Charlie will always have a very special place in your heart.

Will be thinking of you

[~Anne~]

I am so sorry to hear your news. Giving a mate his wings is never easy. *hugs*

[Tassie]

Nadine - so sorry to hear your news about Charlie. Hope this post is not tool late.

The two dogs I have lost so far, I have had cremated. Many vets have a service which provides a dedicated cremation, and after a week or so, you get your dog's ashes back. I did this, when after having buried a few cats, I realised that without getting in a backhoe, burial for my Border Collies was not an option. Now I wouldn't hesitate about cremation - it's nice to have their ashes, and you know you can take them with you when you move.

You're going to have a rough time - make sure you take care of yourself, and get support.

Erny wrote what I thought was a wonderful and helpful post for someone else in a similar situation - it's on page 3 of this thread. I hope you find it helpful.