dogdude Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Yeah, I can think of a "few". I can also think of the majority who are obedient dogs both in and out of the ring. To generalise and state that there is difference bewilders me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsD Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Perhaps you might think of something really intelligent to add to the thread ? Actually I thought I did - if you train a dog merely to achieve a title in obedience & can then see no further reason to continue training & trialling, to me that means you are only after the title. Personally I train & trial my dogs because 1. they enjoy it 2. I enjoy it 3. to see if I can better my dog & possibly my highest score 4. if I were ever lucky enough to get a perfect 200 score, I'd still be trialling to see if my dog & I as a team could do it again. But those are just my personal motivations - & for the record I work for obedience both inside & outside of the ring ;) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Sounds like you hang out with some fantastic trainer/handlers!! I do. Yeah, I can think of a "few". I can also think of the majority who are obedient dogs both in and out of the ring. To generalise and state that there is difference bewilders me? I agree a lot of dogs are both, but there is a huge difference between competition obedience and obedience for everyday life. Competition obedience is a series of well trained tricks. When I heel I want the dog targeting my left hand the whole time. His eyes should not leave my hand. This is very different from anything I would ever ask outside of the ring. I expect a dog to walk without pulling and he is allowed to investigate and sniff to the end of the lead (wether it is 6ft or 2 ft) so long as he doesn't pull. I also have a command for come in close and stay beside me, but it is not heeling. There are people who concentrate very successfully on competition but don't work on the everyday things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 This thread, has begun my poor old brain, to work again, LOL, regarding the ideal age relating to "when" a dog learns............obviously wanted behaviour!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 (edited) There are also people whose dogs are either "working" or in a run.. They argue it encourages focus and enthusiasm. I argue it's the canine equivalent of Stockholm syndrome. There's a lot of hooey about what makes a top competition obedience dog. I suppose it comes down to the differences between why people get dogs in the first place. Some want a dog for the job, others want a pet that can also do dogsports, others just like to try to see what they can do with the dog they have. Edited March 5, 2007 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 There are also people whose dogs are either "working" or in a run.. They argue it encourages focus and ethusiasm. I argue it's the canine equivalent of Stockholm syndrome.There's a lot of hooey about what makes a top competition obedience dog. I suppose it comes down to the differences between why people get dogs in the first place. Some what a dog for the job, others want a pet that can also do dogsports, others just like to try to see what they can do with the dog they have. Poodlefan, I must love dog hair!!!, my lot are in the house, when not being trained. Well......the two youngsters sleep in runs during summer. Years and years ago, the mainstream working retriever trainer and owner, were advised to keep working dogs in runs. All the dogs various satisfactions, were achieved through training. As my dogs are pets and working dogs, it does take a lot work and CONSISTENCY,on my part, to have them in the house. My dogs understand the difference in working time - down time. We have all heard the words: A dog cannot learn in its run. But then I suppose, look at dogs in backyards learning unwanted behaviour. Some dogs also, need to be contained, before being trained. Lets face it some dogs have the drive of a garden gnome and can be very frustrating to help train. Interesting topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Lets face it some dogs have the drive of a garden gnome and can be very frustrating to help train. I have one of those, but she is the most wonderful companion. If she ever makes it back into the obedience ring she will probably just scrape through. My dogs are firstly pets. They live in the house and I don't own a dog run. Also once they arrive they are here for life. I was just trying to point out that there is a difference between training for a high obedience score and training for a dog that is good to live with, and I believe it is possible to have both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Hi Janba I would not like to enter the ring with a dog that thinks that there is a difference between the ring and the outside world. Far too often, the outside world and all of its distractions enter the ring. Heeling was never designed to take your dog for a walk in the park, but a tool to be used when necessary, just like every other trial exercise. Some of them may be irrelevant in todays society, but that is another argument. I cant imagine that there would be too many reliable high level trialling dogs that were not reliable in public. A dogs mindset is moulded by its handler, if the handler has created a dog that acts that way, they only have themselves to blame. If the dog is taught that it is more than just well rehearsed "tricks" that are required, they won't have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clover Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 I have to work 5 times as much as most other people to produce the same result. I cannot talk to the breeder as he said to me he is not a dog trainer and the dog is a product of your training. (doesn't really help that answer). But herding seems to come to her really quickly so why fight an up hill battle. Just go with what the dog is good at. Tia is only a baby still, give her some time and maturity. Dogs grow up and their training preferences do change (Well some do). Clover did not play with tennis balls until we started flyball when she was 3 years old. It was all obedience up until then, which we started when she was 14 weeks old and she was burnt out by 3 years old and is only just getting back into obedience now at 8 years old. I have now changed my views on training pups, i will let my current baby (And fture babies) be a baby first with short sessions on the basics (Sit, Drop, Stand & Come). At the moment we are just getting him to bond to us and have some fun. I have more to add but my mind has gone blank, maybe i need to go play with the dogs ;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooper Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Dogs grow up and their training preferences do change (Well some do). I'm glad you added that parenthetical statement I was just thinking "but Jack has just turned seven and is still a silly goose!" As I type this, he's leaping around the backyard, flipping a two-week old remnant of a marrowbone in the air and chasing after it ;) At times, I wish I had adopted an "easy" dog for my first pet (other than family dogs). But having a stubborn boofhead of a dog who was initially dog-aggressive has taught me so much, and continues to do so. On Saturday, the dog who wouldn't go near water and wouldn't retrieve anything a year ago was splashing about at Molonglo Gorge, bringing his Aussie Dog thong back to me time after time. That's enough of a small victory to make me sit here and grin like a git ;) Now, to teach him to swim ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Dogdude: I cant imagine that there would be too many reliable high level trialling dogs that were not reliable in public. Come up to ACT/NSW for a visit Dogdude - I'll be happy to point some out. You'd probably be surprised at who owns them... multiple State obedience title winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Question for you all: many of us are saying that if we start training too young that the dog burn out - what do you think causes that? I am asking this as I think that no matter what age we start training, if we don't push them, go at their pace and keep training fun.... why should they burn out? Shouldn't they love to learn all the time? Shouldn't they want to work on the pretense that they *might* get that reward? If we keep teaching them new things throughout their lives in the way of tricks or perhaps extentions on the sit/drop/stands..... wouldn't training always be fun for them no matter what age they started? I'm really curious to the answers as I think that if trained at their own pace, no matter how young you start (and that may mean that some have done more with pups by a certian age) the dog should never burn out - if they do, I think we should re-look at our training techniques and perhaps their reward schedule.... have we made it too 'boring' for them.... or rather have we got bored of training that one particular dog?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Hi Poodlefan We all know NSW has always been a little behind the Victoria in most areas. ;) Like I said, the dog is only a product of the handler. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Hi PoodlefanWe all know NSW has always been a little behind the Victoria in most areas. ;) Like I said, the dog is only a product of the handler. In obedience Dude, I totally agree that NSW lags behind Vic. I'd argue the reverse for agility. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 And I would argue that WA is miles ahead of any where both in agility and obedience ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Wasn't just talking about dogs! ;) Agree we need to pull our socks up with the agility. Its extremly popular down here but we seem to lack serious agility clubs and people to teach it. The ones that do exist have huge waiting lists. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Wasn't just talking about dogs! ;) Agree we need to pull our socks up with the agility. Its extremly popular down here but we seem to lack serious agility clubs and people to teach it. The ones that do exist have huge waiting lists. Yeah, I know... just didn't want to see the thread deleted after a big NSW v VIC slanging match! ;) As a former resident of both states and a current resident of the ACT, I can only say that I prefer VIC to NSW.. better weather, holidays etc... but no doubt others would beg to differ. VIC has some excellent agility competitors but it's only recently that they've started to be included on the visiting O/S trainers seminar circuit. Personally I think you learn more at a good seminar than you will in months of ordinary training/competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 We are even having trouble with keeping up with obedience students down here at the moment. There seems to be more and more clubs popping up that are not affiliated with the VCA. Many have over 300 members and a handfull of instructors. Its a shame because with the huge class sizes now, the personal help is getting less and less. Standards are starting to fall by the wayside. I think that is what half of Sydneys obedience scene's problem is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Lets face it some dogs have the drive of a garden gnome and can be very frustrating to help train. I have one of those, but she is the most wonderful companion. If she ever makes it back into the obedience ring she will probably just scrape through. My dogs are firstly pets. They live in the house and I don't own a dog run. Also once they arrive they are here for life. I was just trying to point out that there is a difference between training for a high obedience score and training for a dog that is good to live with, and I believe it is possible to have both. No problem. Both you and your dogs are happy. That's good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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