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Does Bsl Reduce Attack Rates?


zara
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You keep harping on about Darla Napora... yes she was a pitbull advocate, but nowhere do any articles relating to her death explain why the attack took place...

Yes I do becuse most Pitbull Advocates want to pretend like t didn't happen.

You ,however ,are looking for a reason to blame the Victim for the fatal attack. Youkeep hrping on about "why the attack took place..." Why does it matter? Does anything that Darla may or may not have done justify a fatal attack? Should society be subject to dogs that may kill you depending on your behavior?

Same as all the other attacks by other breeds.. no-one has learnt and they wont with BSL, that is a fact. BSL gets rid of one breed then the next will be in the headlines, and Joe Blogs will still be none the wiser as far as responsible ownership is concerned.

Is knowing the answer to this question worth a life? 2? How many?

The Pitbull advocates often promote the fallacy of idiots moving from one breed to the next This is a lie. Not true and is not borne out by municipalities that have adopted BSL

which include these US states Alabama, Arkansas ,California, Colorado. Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky

Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota

Oklahoma, Ohio, Oregon Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia,

Wisconsin, District of Columbia

Many foreign countries have enacted breed-specific laws to protect citizens from dangerous dogs and to stop the importation of fighting dogs (pit bulls). Countries include Argentina, Bavaria, Bermuda, Denmark, Ecuador, France, Guyana, Israel, Italy, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Puerto Rico, Romania, Singapore, Spain, St. Kitts and Nevis, Turkey, the UAE, United Kingdom, Venezuela and parts of Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Germany, Ireland, Malaysia, China and Japan.

Didn't you listen to the Radio interview with Assistant City Attorney Don Bauermeister, there is a LOT of information about how BSL has worked in Council Bluffs, Iowa?

I'd like to know what your stance is on Amstaffs, staffies, bull terriers, mastiifs, (i could go on) is? should they be banned too?

I'm fairly happy with the legislation the way it is written although it doesn't go far enough AFAIK. Pit Bull, American Staffordshire Terrier, American Bulldogs, and Yorkies, Whatever you want to call them, are all the same thing.

I haven't harped on about anything, i merely question your reasons to be so pro BSL when it hasn't stopped dog attacks? BSL is in Victoria and has been for years, did it stop anything? nope. because dog attacks are occuring everyday by many other breeds, but hey you don't care about that do you.

I doubt you have any experience with pitbulls so you until you have you should possibly not comment.

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Zara

under the current victorian law I cannot bring my dog from SA for training seminars, because she has a short coat and musclely build and is sometimes mistaken for a "staffy cross". She is registered in SA, but not Victoria and I would have difficulty registering her in Victoria because she is a cross breed, and I don't live in Victoria.

That's your own fault, you are a victim of your own choices, if you'd chosen one of the others of hundreds of breeds available to you, instead of a derivative of a "bull" breed you wouldn't have this restriction. Your situation is a result of your own choices, stop trying to blame some-one else

You have just been extremely rude to someone without actually knowing the most basic facts. For all you knew, her crossbreed was as innocuous as the crossbreeds you have, and yet you declared that she has made a questionable choice and accuse her of throwing the blame? Like you have a clue? And you wonder why people have said that you are deliberately stirring for a reaction.

Show me where anyone that is not a Pitbull Advocate or AntiBSL is going to be annoyed by my posts?

If you're not a Pitbull Advocate why would you get upset at my posts?

I'm not a 'Pitbull advocate', have never been to an anti BSL rally, nor even usually come to this section of DOL (until recently due to the new Vic legislation), and I was annoyed by your accusatory tone and absolute non-grasp of the situation you were addressing. As Mrs Rusty Bucket pointed out (one of the posts you didn't bother to respond to), you are in EXACTLY the same position as she is regarding your dogs, so if you question her choices, you also question your own. Every finger you point points straight back at you. Best you find out about this new legislation and why it makes us all so nervous before your short haired and muscular kelpie x jack russell or your short haired and muscular ridgie x whippet are placed at risk, which is exactly the point that we are all trying to make, and which seems inexplicably hidden from you.

Regarding the unfortunate death of Darla Napora, until someone can explain to me why the female pitbull was 'cowering in the corner', I'm in no position to presume what happened and what caused the attack, and nor is anyone else alive on this planet. The only person who could have told us what really happened is dead, and I'm not about to blame thousands of dogs for what one did, the same as I'm not about to blame thousands of humans because someone murdered someone.

If we apply BSL principles to everything, then we should ban all cars, planes, boats, sports. I do believe that on occasion a rogue racehorse jumps the railings and at least once has killed someone so lets get rid of all horses. People kill people so ALL people should be kept in secure enclosures and forbidden from breeding...

If you will go so far for 2 pitbull caused deaths, why won't you go so far to stop humans killing humans? Are the victims of humans less important than those killed by dogs? And why dismiss the other victims of dog attacks so easily? You talk as if everyone here is making light of two deaths, while you blithely dismiss all others and talk as if only those two deaths matter.

BSL is a stupid lolly and icecream approach that solves nothing, but makes the kids feel better.

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As Tybrax has said Clubsprint was banned from another dog forum only 2 or 3 days ago (and then re registered under a different name and tried to start s**t by posting a new thread). On that forum we have had THIS exact conversation in more than 4 different threads.

I applaud everyone for their effort but would advise not to even bother, he has been provided with all of this evidence, all the links and everything else and he blatantly ignores anything that proves BSL does not work. He picks and chooses which parts of your posts to reply to, he takes things out of context to make them work for him.

He is not worth all of your valuable time because you won't change his mind or his stance.

Edited by Keira&Phoenix
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Thanks for the advice and all the help im getting from everyone im just so scared to lose her i love this girl all my heart . Her name is co co btw

Well Coco is lovely and you sound like you will do all you can to keep her safe.

You'd better do all you can to keep other peoples children and animals safe from her when she grows into the powerful Landshark she will be.

And if you needed any more proof that he won't listen here is a post of CS's from over 2.5 years ago (from here http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/127139-non-questioning-vets-in-nsw/page__st__45). He has always been a PB hater. Actually with the use of the word Landshark and comments made in another forum I am starting to suspect Clubsprint is Hugh Wirth.

Edited by Keira&Phoenix
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You simply have to laugh your butt off at someone who has this kind of diatribe on a dog forum....

Particularly when they obviously expect dogs to tolerate anything and everything without ever lashing out from pain or fear.

*sarcasm* Look everyone, we'll all be safe and there will never be another dog bite or attack if we simply kill pitbulls....

Yep, can see so much logic there.... *end sarcasm*

troll+6.jpg

Edited by risquebiz
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We know that probably all of these serious attacks although reported in media hype as Pitbull culprits, were not genuine APBT's but cross breeds of various Bull/Mastiff styles etc of Pitbull type similarities appearance wise.

Ultimately if there were no dogs, dog attacks wouldn't occur at all and with that said, a BSL in the extreme would work. Some say that any form of BSL doesn't reduce attack rates, well we know a total BSL of no dogs will reduce attacks competely, so surely in that case a blend of BSL eliminating the types of dogs prone to active and predatory type aggression would have to reduce attack rates over no BSL at all, yes or no?

So in one breath you say that the majority of attacks are most likely not pitbulls but were mongrel crosses of completely different breed, yet in the next you suggest that BSL will work? So which breeds do we need to rid society of in order to stop dog attacks - especially given the statistics from a researcher at the monash uni which says that of 33 fatal dog attacks since 1979, ONLY 2 were pitbull or pitbull crosses?

Isn't it time to make laws to make people train, socialise and contain their dogs?

Spot on mate.Socialisation,training and containment has been my matra for many a year.If only the powers that be were a little smarter but they will continually choose the most cost effective and genrally least effective overall.Rather than that which acheives actual outcomes becuase they cost money and thats something they dont want to know about.

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You've all missed the point of what do the government/councils plan to do about the dogs that BSL has made their owners hide/lie about their parentage?

It'll only end up making the dogs more valuable to the meat heads who bought them to appear tough, and as there's nothing to regulate anything that's already illegal, I fully expect the breed to become as dangerous as the govt./councils say they already are, then what do we do? We'll have a race of unsocialised and very unstable, very aggressive dogs, and WHO will have created the mess?

You are years too late. That happened when BSL started.

It certainly did.Especially in Victoria

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Over the past couple of years, there has been some serious dog attacks involving Pitbull type dogs to the recent death of the poor little Melbourne girl which sparked community outcry to clamp down and potentially rid the community of these type of dogs?. We know that probably all of these serious attacks although reported in media hype as Pitbull culprits, were not genuine APBT's but cross breeds of various Bull/Mastiff styles etc of Pitbull type similarities appearance wise.

Although people get bitten by dogs on a regular basis from all breeds, types and sizes, a trend appeared to develop where the seriously savage attacks, maulings with severe injury and a death were caused primarily by these cross breed dogs of Pitbull style and similarity clearly more of these type of dogs involved in attacks than anything else.

These attacks for the most part were unprovoked active and predatory type aggression where they had chased people down, gone after and attacked other dogs where people were bitten trying to protect their own dog to the horrifying situation where the the dog chased some neighours kids into their home and killed the little girl in the lounge room.

People in community outcry protested that getting rid of these types of dogs will make the community a safer place and reduce the incidence of dog attacks and severe injury and quite frankly I agree on the basis if these dogs had fallen victim to a BSL and no longer existed, the specific incidents wouldn't have happened?

Ultimately if there were no dogs, dog attacks wouldn't occur at all and with that said, a BSL in the extreme would work. Some say that any form of BSL doesn't reduce attack rates, well we know a total BSL of no dogs will reduce attacks competely, so surely in that case a blend of BSL eliminating the types of dogs prone to active and predatory type aggression would have to reduce attack rates over no BSL at all, yes or no?

Zara, be prepared for all sorts of abuse if you come down on the side of BSL.

Pitbull advocates will accuse you of all sorts of things while they try really hard to quote you all sorts of figures to try and prove their case. They will make all sorts of rubbish claims whilst using other Pitbull Advocates to back up their myths. They encourage the all sorts of myths, falsifications and hysteria about BSL to scare owners of other breeds to back them up. They say "IT's Pitbull's now and once they're gone they'll pick on Roti's or Dobes or GSDs or etc." Of course this is unfounded. They'll accuse you of lying, or trolling and wont accept that you can be a dog lover and want to still want to eradicate these unpredictable liabilities.

The thing I find really interesting is that the Pitbull advocates completely ignore the death of Darla Napora,

they just stick their head in the sand and pretend it didn't happen.

She was pregnant and killed (that's two lives)by her own dog in her own house.

She was a member of Bay Area Dog Lovers Responsible About Pit Bulls [bAD RAP]

Her husband has "forgiven" the dog and will bury it's ashes with her.

Does this guy have a borderline personality disorder?

Does anyone else find this sick?

How do the Pitbull advocates explain this?

They had ths dog sinse it was a pup so bad treatment can be ruled out.

Is this just an inconenient truth to be ignored?

How much more proof is needed?

Apparently, Gunner the two year old male did the attacking and there was no evidence that the female dog, Tazi, took part in the attack.

I'm told this heroic breed frequently protects their master in such incidents.

What happened to Tazi, did she forget her role?

Let's hear from her husband.

Greg Napora says that he forgives Gunner for killing his wife and unborn child because it was “just a freak accident…They (their two pit bulls) are the most loving animals I have ever had in my life. Whatever happened right now was not the breed’s fault."

Are these the words of a deluded idiot or what?. Has this guy got any brains at all?

He's just lost his wife and unborn child and all he can talk about is the "love" of his dogs?

Loving like that is hard to come by.

What about the love of your wife? You aren't never going to get that back.

What abut the love to come from your son/daughter?

My dog loves me like a serial killer.

Yep, I'm convinced, great family dogs.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2027286/Darla-Napora-Pregnant-woman-dies-mauled-pet-dog-living-room.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/15/darla-napora-pit-bull-death-details_n_927770.html

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/animal-rights/husband-forgives-pit-bull-killing-pregnant-wife-darla-napora

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/peninsula/2011/08/sole-pit-bull-responsible-killing-pregnant-woman-experts-say

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/2011/08/pit-bull-mauling-death-pregnant-woman-comes-shock-pacifica

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/08/darla_napora_pregnant_pit_bull.php

Be prepared for all this Zara. These are the sort of people who will chose the life of a killer dog over their wife.

These are the people that will come after you so make sure that's what you want.

What the F*** has a dog attack in the US got to do with Australia? When people like you have to troll for fatalaties from another country to further your agenda it pretty welll sums it up.I got one stat for you champ.No "purebred" American pitbull Terrier has been responsible for a single fatality in this country in nearly 30 years.How do you like that one?I never get sick of saying it.

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Someone should point out to clubsprint that of the 33 dog attack fatalities since 1979 in Australia,2 were attributed to pitbull or pitbull crosses. Someone should also ask clubsprint what he plans to do about the other 31 deaths

Two deaths is two deaths that didn't need to happen.

Someone should ask mymatejack is 2 deaths OK by you?

Someone should ask mymatejack is it OK that two people die (probably children) so that you can have a Pitbull?

Incidently, taken from the article you refer to here, the killers have been a Siberian husky, four bull mastiffs, a rottweiler, and crossbreeds of boxer, greyhound, pit bull and mastiffs.I'd be concerned if I owned a mastif.

2 out of 32 equals approx 6%.

Someone should ask mymatejack does the number of Pitbulls represented as a percentage of the total dog population in Australia come anywhere near that?

I'll answer for you NO.

Pitbulls make up less than 2% of the dog population.

That would mean that the breed is over represented in deaths caused by attacks.

Also from the article you referred to In Canberra, however, RSPCA scientific officer Jade Norris says there is "some evidence that certain dog breeds have a greater genetic predisposition towards aggressive behaviour."

"They might also have a lower trigger point for aggression and due to their physical size and strength they may have a greater capacity to inflict serious injury compared to other breeds."

Ideal family dogs huh?

Linda Watsons research only talks about deaths, it doesn't talk about maulings and bites.

The evidence about the viciousness of these dogs and the danger they pose to society is overwhelming. The so called BSL in Victoria removes this danger from society. Someone should ask mymatejack is that a bad thing?

The ther 31 deaths are not my resposibility. Do you have a sugestion?

Did you cut and paste that one form the onther forum you were banned from.Lol.

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You keep harping on about Darla Napora... yes she was a pitbull advocate, but nowhere do any articles relating to her death explain why the attack took place...

Yes I do becuse most Pitbull Advocates want to pretend like t didn't happen.

You ,however ,are looking for a reason to blame the Victim for the fatal attack. Youkeep hrping on about "why the attack took place..." Why does it matter? Does anything that Darla may or may not have done justify a fatal attack? Should society be subject to dogs that may kill you depending on your behavior?

Same as all the other attacks by other breeds.. no-one has learnt and they wont with BSL, that is a fact. BSL gets rid of one breed then the next will be in the headlines, and Joe Blogs will still be none the wiser as far as responsible ownership is concerned.

Is knowing the answer to this question worth a life? 2? How many?

The Pitbull advocates often promote the fallacy of idiots moving from one breed to the next This is a lie. Not true and is not borne out by municipalities that have adopted BSL

which include these US states Alabama, Arkansas ,California, Colorado. Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky

Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota

Oklahoma, Ohio, Oregon Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia,

Wisconsin, District of Columbia

Many foreign countries have enacted breed-specific laws to protect citizens from dangerous dogs and to stop the importation of fighting dogs (pit bulls). Countries include Argentina, Bavaria, Bermuda, Denmark, Ecuador, France, Guyana, Israel, Italy, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Puerto Rico, Romania, Singapore, Spain, St. Kitts and Nevis, Turkey, the UAE, United Kingdom, Venezuela and parts of Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Germany, Ireland, Malaysia, China and Japan.

Didn't you listen to the Radio interview with Assistant City Attorney Don Bauermeister, there is a LOT of information about how BSL has worked in Council Bluffs, Iowa?

I'd like to know what your stance is on Amstaffs, staffies, bull terriers, mastiifs, (i could go on) is? should they be banned too?

I'm fairly happy with the legislation the way it is written although it doesn't go far enough AFAIK. Pit Bull, American Staffordshire Terrier, American Bulldogs, and Yorkies, Whatever you want to call them, are all the same thing.

I see you know how to use google to find countries you wouldnt otherwise know how to spell. Yorkies?They are very similar to pitbulls arent they.Savage little things.

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I bet your a groupie of dogbites.org arent you? Another propaganda website from the pitbull haters.Now tellus I bet that a pitbull type dog chased you when you were on your bike and made you wet your pants.

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Zara

under the current victorian law I cannot bring my dog from SA for training seminars, because she has a short coat and musclely build and is sometimes mistaken for a "staffy cross". She is registered in SA, but not Victoria and I would have difficulty registering her in Victoria because she is a cross breed, and I don't live in Victoria.

That's your own fault, you are a victim of your own choices, if you'd chosen one of the others of hundreds of breeds available to you, instead of a derivative of a "bull" breed you wouldn't have this restriction. Your situation is a result of your own choices, stop trying to blame some-one else

You insensitive twit :mad

Dogs will always be victims and pay the price from either Irresponsible or negligent HUMANS! You're nothing but a waste of space here go back and crawl under that hole you came from and stop blaming one breed of dog for your woes! It's just pathetic

Edited by RottnBullies
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I chose a cattle dog cross with an extremely friendly temperment - didn't occur to me at the time, that Victoria would ban them.

I don't feel like it's my fault - I've worked hard with her to make sure she doesn't bite anything she's not supposed to (apart from the occasional ugg boot). She hasn't killed any children. In fact children love her to bits and she never complains.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Pit Bull, American Staffordshire Terrier, American Bulldogs, and Yorkies, Whatever you want to call them, are all the same thing.

I'm confused with this list. I had no idea bull dogs were terriers, and if they are, shouldn't all the other terrier breeds be included too. This seems to ben another 'blame everyone for the actions of a few' tactic.

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BSL> does' not work....period.

Banning a dog based on its' breed to try to prevent attacks is like banning Holden cars because they are involved in more accidents than other makes...rubbish.

It is about time councils, governments etc. stopped all the B/S and held dog owners liable for their dogs behaviour and containment ,instead of making a phony appearance to be actually doing something constructive.

If you scan the net there are many examples of bsl making NO difference to attacks . It has been tried in the Netherlands, Canada, and Europe ( APT in holland. )

Check....Cincinnati law review 1982 Vol 53 page 1077.

My dogs are MY responsability , NO one elses.

Smaller breeds bite more often But dont' cause the same damage, is that alone justification for bsl. I dont' think so.

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Pit Bull, American Staffordshire Terrier, American Bulldogs, and Yorkies, Whatever you want to call them, are all the same thing.

I'm confused with this list. I had no idea bull dogs were terriers, and if they are, shouldn't all the other terrier breeds be included too. This seems to ben another 'blame everyone for the actions of a few' tactic.

Bull dogs aren't terriers. They have never been described as terriers. They make no claim to be terriers.

Terrier means ''earth dog''

As a matter of fact it is a bit of a stretch calling Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers & American Pitbull Terriers terriers.

Edited by smacka
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