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Sadly there are breeders who do breed from these dogs and hide under the umbrella that it has not been proven to be inhereted. I personally believe it is a matter of time before the genes are discovered for some forms of epilepsy - then lets see them run for cover. I think it is disgusting that breeders knowingly breed from animals that have such a distressing condition - imagine the family that buys a pet in good faith from a registered breeder and that beautiful puppy goes on to develop epilepsy as an adult. grrrr

No I never suggested it had been proven - the gene for narcolepsy has been identified and this is sometimes comes up in searches for epilepsy - from memory by Optigen who have a test for it. I was worried by your post dismissing inheritance as a factor when in fact this is of great concern to breeders and breed clubs. It would be very dissapointing if people continued to breed with animals whose epilepsy appears to be idiopathic. A very well known breeder of mini poodles in Europe went public when a boy she purchased produced offspring with epilepsy, contacting all who had purchased puppies or used him at stud and removing all progeny from their breeding programme. They no longer use younger males at stud. We need more breeders like this not ones who never talk about the cases they produce and when contacted by buyers whose dogs develop the disease hide behind the "we've never produced a case before".

Vetgen are currently conducting research into inherited epilesy (they want to identify the genes responsible and produce a test) for the following breeds: Australian Shep beagle Dalmation collie english springer spaniel irish setter Prof. Barbara licht (Uni of Illinois) is looking at inherited epilepsy in standard poodles The Poodle Club of America and many other breed clubs donate money and encourage their members to provide dna to these projects so there is obviously a belief among breeders that idiopathic epilepsy is inherited in some breeds. The Poodle Club of America list inherited epilepsy as a recognised health problem in standard poodles. Sorry I couldn't provide web addresses Puggles - I generally print stuff off and put it in a file.

I have done quite a lot of reading on this topic and inheritance has definitely not been ruled out - for info see the Canine Epilepsy Project "a genetic factor may be highly suspected when siezures occur in dogs 1 to 3 years of age" and "test breedings of epileptic dams and sires ...have produced incidences of epilepsy in offspring ranging from betweem 38% (a study of 3 different epileptic bitches outcrossed to a single epileptic sire) to 100% (a mating of 2 epileptic siblings)" There is certainly ongoing research involoving many breeds where inheritance is strongly suspected as a cause of epilepsy. Obviously there are other causes, as we all know from reading and our own experiences, but inheritance is certainly a factor which must be considered.

Showdog - I find I can source blades (including postage) much cheaper from the USA - maybe I'm looking at the wrong places in Oz?

I buy all my blades from the USA and am considering purchasing another set of clippers this way. Anyone done this? Pros and cons. Obviously they won't be covered by a warranty but any other cons?

My guys get tinned mackerel(homebrand) once per week. They love it!

If it is a one off infestation - use the Capstar tablets that someone up above mentioned. Thankfully my 3 very rarely get fleas and if I see one or there is some scratching I give them a Capstar each. Anything more sinister and I give a flea bath and or frontline. I look at their tummies everyday and groom once a week (bath, turbo dry and clip) so I notice any fleas before it gets out of hand (she says with fingers crossed)

Your dogs are being reinfested from their environment so you have to treat the environment as well as the animals. Use the permoxin spray as suggested but concentrate on environment. Are the fleas in your house or your yard? If your dogs have access to under the house (ie your house is on stumps) there will definitely be fleas under there. Fence it off so the dogs cannot access and throw pool salt under the house or spray. You also need to treat the yard - there are products available for this.

Thanks guys!

Thinking of swaping to this from the Aloveen and wondering how people have found it.

Sorry for the highjack - Raz, can you tell me more about snake bites and seizures as have friends with a gsp who was bitten by a brown and successfully treated - two weeks later she had a seizure.

Erny, as I only really tipped the coat making it the same length allover it's not really an issue. I would take more off a standard poodle puppy of the same age going in its first show! I am very pleased that someone with a coated breed is establishing a grooming routine so early on - makes it much less traumatic. I feel sorry for once/twice per year clip offs who are often completely terrified by the noises and proccedures of the grooming salon and difficult for the groomer to handle. Or the owners of coated breeds who bring it in for its first clip at 8 months of age - same deal.

Thought I would update siince people are still looking. Gabby was gorgeous....very regal and self assured for 3 months. Her parents were lovely and mum has had pekes in the past and coundn't resist when she happened to see her in the pet shop window. She was beautifully groomed and clean (not much for me to do really) I gave her a scissor all over leaving the coat about an inch long - spent most of my time snuggling her. I know why people like Pekes now

I use 10 inch curved and straights on my standard poodles and prefer 8 and 8.5 on smaller dogs. The length refers to the entire length of the shears not the blade length. I have several pairs of jaguars which I really like. My first pair were Whals and cost about $70 - I quickly outgrew them and prefered the higher performance of more expensive equipment around $150 - 200 mark. It really depends how often you use them. Catchcut edges can be sharpened.

Thanks guys - can't wait to see Gabby, the baby Peke, and hopefully she will be a regular customer whether her parents choose to "clip or not to clip"

Thanks 'showdog' - what do you do with their heads?

Thanks Ginger and others - it's not a breed I am familiar with but my small amount of research made it clear that this is a very high maintenance breed in terms of coat so will nicely go through the options with the couple - just didn't want to dive in (so to speak) and end up creating a coat that is even more difficult to deal with.

That good ol pet shop purchase. I don't think they even know what the dog will look like as an adut. You know what the worst thing is - every time I go past the local Pets Paradise store there are people in there looking at the puppies.

Had a request today to clip a baby pekingese (purchased from a pet shop grrrr). I don't generally like clipping double coated breeds unless there is no alternative - but I did a little research and found some breeders (generally in the USA) who recommend clipping for pets. Can anyone offer any advice or experiences?

Can only answer for poodle coats - mine were desexed after retiring from the show ring and they certainly did not have any changes in coat as a result - though have heard people say this in relation to other breeds.

I do my husband and our 3 standard poodles - he doesn't get bows

Why would you leave your dog to be groomed with someone who gave you a "bad vibe"?

If you have a dog that is not used to regular clipping (ie 6 to 8 week schedule) it can be a very frightening experience to be groomed even with the most experienced and gentle groomer in the world. The kindest thing you can do for a coated breed that will need clipping is to have it done regularly from a very early age. This is why good poodle breeders shave the face feet and tail of babies several times before they go to their new homes and why responsible owners book their babies in on a regular basis from the time they come home. If they are used to the noises and routines of a grooming parlour there is far less chance of their being terrified. Good luck with your little one.

Yep, had to have the motor replaced in My Km-1 with minimal use (one standard pet and one standard show dog) . However, worked in a grooming salon that used Oster, Whal, laube and Andis. I invariabley picked up the Whals - Osters got too hot and Andis vibrated too much. That was a while ago and they all have new models out. Poodle 3081 - I think you will find a lot of "poodle people" who have been in dogs forever use Osters - they were the "only" clipper to buy many years ago and they last forever - open a poodle book to the grooming section and there they are. As long as you buy a clipper designed for proffessional use you can't go wrong - the rest is personal preference.