huski

Cherry is on EPH fish and is doing really well on it. But, Artemis Maximal Grain Free would be my first choice if I had to feed my other two on dried.

It's probably only exciting to me, but I can't help but share this as I'm so proud of my little beag. Daisy managed to get out the front door this morning and ran straight down the driveway and out onto the open street. She instantly got onto a scent and was madly scenting up and down the front lawn, dangerously close to the road. I was so scared she was going to run onto the road and get hit by a car. Only two weeks ago I introduced a new command word for the recall for when we are doing drive training. Daisy has always been reliable with recalls when we do them for training, but being a beagle, as soon as she's on a scent her hearing is all but turned off. So today when she got out into the street and picked up a scent I was so worried about catching her, I ran out after her and called out 'here!' (which is the recall command I use for TID). Daisy stopped scenting, span around and ran at full pelt back towards me, sitting nicely in front of me I was so proud of her and relieved that I almost cried :rolleyes: I don't think she's ever recalled off a scent so quickly before, ever. I know it's not a big brag and that we are far from a 100% reliable recall but I just had to share, God knows what could have happened if I couldn't have recalled her so quickly.

This is what I'm questioning, Huski. If my dog and other dogs (Jed's dogs for example) can do it with no problems, so can other dogs. But there are lots of dogs out there who are inappropriately aggressive towards people and other dogs, like Rex's dog did before he received proper training. Just because you feel your dog will assess each situation appropriately, and act of his own accord, and you're comfortable with that, does not mean that all dogs will make the 'right' decision as to who they aggress towards.

Where did I say the dogs have to be trained in protection work? There are plenty of high drive, working line dogs in pet homes that aren't trained in Schutzhund or PP work. Rex is suggesting that the OP look at getting a high drive working line dog that will naturally and instinctively: Rex has posted several times about the rank aggression problems he had with his dog, before he found a police dog trainer to teach him how to train and handle his dog effectively. It's a fact that high drive, working line dogs will take more training, and more knowledge, than lower drive dogs. There is a higher likelihood that if the dog is not adequately trained that it will become hard to control and dangerous. It is not the same as owning a 'pet' dog with weaker nerves and takes a lot more work and understanding and training.

But, as you discovered Rex, without a fair amount of training dogs like yours can become dangerous and out of control. How can a dog running purely on instinct interpret each 'dangerous' situation appropriately? Don't you understand the danger in letting the dog decide for itself when is the appropriate time to aggress and when isn't? Huski, are you saying any dog with a guarding instinct is a dangerous dog unless trained in protection? No, I'm saying that without a fair amount of training they can become dangerous and out of control - just like Rex's dog did. Most high drive working line dogs aren't ideal for the average pet owner, and anyone who wants to own one needs to be prepared to put in a lot more training and work into the dog than you would a breed from "weaker" lines, or the dog can become bored, out of control, and yes - dangerous.

But, as you discovered Rex, without a fair amount of training dogs like yours can become dangerous and out of control. How can a dog running purely on instinct interpret each 'dangerous' situation appropriately? Don't you understand the danger in letting the dog decide for itself when is the appropriate time to aggress and when isn't?

If I forget to defrost, I feed them tinned tuna, grated carrot, eggs and cheese. Just mix it all up and serve, they love it! That's what I normally do, but I'd run out of about everything that I'd normally throw together

But doing the above, isn't that rewarding the dog for looking at whatever distraction? I thought clickers were supposed to mark desirable behaviours?

Hi Jacqui I use Jane Harper, she's wonderful and helped me tremendously with my beagle. http://www.dogsontrack.com.au/

That bought tears to my ears Run free lovely big boy

I am so so sorry Sarah Run free Memphis

I forgot to defrost anything for the dogs yesterday and they had their first meal of kibble in months I felt naughty, like I was giving them maccas or something Cherry is on Eagle Pack Holistic so it wasn't even bad dried food

I agree with Persephone, go back to basics. Do you do any training with him?

I've done this a little bit, but I find that even though Daisy is really scent driven it's not as consistent in some ways as training with food. Sometimes she's more interested in food than she is interested in scenting, and it's hard to guarantee that there will always be a scent around that she wants to follow. I often do this when we are out on a walk, and we get to the local sports field. I let her have more leash and I let her scent, but I also add a few recalls in there or ask her to do some basic obedience, and then release her back to scenting. I still get better results with food overall though. I totally agree with you I wouldn't need food or toys to get my dogs to do what they were bred to do (scenting/tracking or sledding). The activity itself is rewarding enough.

But training with food doesn't produce reliable service

I do what Seita has basically outlined here: http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?s=&a...t&p=3959269 By the time we trial we will be at a point where I can put food down away from the trial ring, and still have Daisy working in drive, because she knows as soon as I release her she can go and get the food.

Food reinforcement is useful in conditioning puppies to the stimulus/response, but should be gradually phased out, as it does not produce reliable service in a dog. Training a dog to be obedient does not rely on "what the dog is interested in", but teaches a dog to obey (no matter what else they are interested in). Needing more tasty morsels to keep a dog "interested" is not what I would call obedience training. But each to their own (I thought Huskies had strong pack instincts, so should be quite motivated to please the leader rather than be waited on??) PMSL - nope, Sibes are bred to be independent thinkers. Good luck getting a Sibe to do anything reliably, just because you told them so. They were bred to think independently so they could overrule commands given to them when they realised a situation was potentially dangerous. Huskies are not known for their biddability, they don't really have much desire to please you just for the sake of it I train my beagle in food drive, no matter how high a level of obedience I get will I never remove food from our training. Have you ever trained a breed like a Beagle to an obedience trialling level, Czara? I'd be really interested in how you'd manage a dog whose drive to scent overruled any training you've ever done with them. It's not even a matter of teaching the dog to obey, it's how you get that level of compliance when their instinct is so strong, without anything but praise you'd never get a dog like a Beagle reliably doing anything but scenting. Do you think using items like tug toys to train dogs in prey drive should be phased out, too? Why would you phase out the very drive that makes the dog work reliably? To be honest, I'm actually quite gobsmacked that you think no dog that's trained in food or prey drive can produce reliable service My dogs learn to look to me when we are training because they know I hold the ultimate reward, drive satisfaction, that's not something you can give them with just praise. You are welcome to come and handle my two dogs and get them working 100% reliably with nothing but praise, though ;)

Yep, open flaps makes yours a den I guess Like I said, what is important is how the dog sees the crate. I can zip up the flaps and she's still happy and content in there, doing the flaps up doesn't change the fact that she loves being in her crate

Dens have opening, through which creatures can come out to stretch their legs or relieve themselves. Cages have bars - all locked, keeping them imprisoned. There is a difference My crate has three flaps that open. Doesn't look like much of prison to me Poor beagle, forced to be imprisoned in her crate You can tell she doesn't enjoy it at all That a crate may not LOOK like a den is not the point. How the dog sees the crate is the point. For my beagle, her crate is her safe place, where she eats and sleeps and goes when she wants to feel secure. If I need to keep her contained for short periods I can put her in there knowing she won't be stressed or in the way. Last night I broke a glass on the floor and put her in the crate while I cleaned it up, it meant she stayed out of the way and didn't walk on broken shards of glass. If we ever go to training workshops, or in the future when we go to trials, having a crate trained dog means I can put her some where safe where she can relax because she loves her crate and is used to having it and seeing being in there as a positive thing. The vast majority of the time she goes into her crate, she does so out of her choosing.

I had the same problem last night, but after a couple of goes my email sent through without me getting a bounceback.

There was a thread on this topic recently - you might find it a useful read http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=174352

No point I guess. I can say I agree with people on this board until my fingers are bleeding and I will still be accused of looking down my nose at some people I happen to disagree with on some things. The reason why I post here is because it's next to useless to post on a board where everyone agrees with me. What's the point in that? I post here more often because I'm sure to have people disagree with me. That (should) make for stimulating discussion, and I get just enough interesting discussion to make me put myself through this over and over again. I would like to say I post here to make myself feel good about myself. That would be smart. If you think it makes someone feel good about themselves to be ignored when they say something agreeable and attacked when they try to start a discussion with a little about themselves, then I really gotta wonder about you... you were the one who said we're threatened and afraid of change, and said you hoped it was true that DOL is one of the last places on the net people who use corrections/ecollars/prongs etc can come and post without being condemned. Sounds like more than a simple "disagreement" to me.

I definitely don't think that of academics at all, Jo :p It's only Corvus who thinks the trainers, behaviourists and anyone in between who doesn't agree with her are backwards and doesn't know what they are talking about. We're afraid of change, you see. When it comes to training my dogs, I don't think of myself as either a positive trainer or a correctional trainer. I don't know why people want to classify others into one or the other. I consider myself a reward based trainer who is not afraid of using a correction or correctional tool if that's what is appropriate for the dog. I'm not afraid of change, I am afraid of dog training becoming ultra-conservative and paranoid to the point where we can't say 'ah ah!' to our dogs without being scolded and reported to the RSPCA for animal abuse.

Corvus I really have to wonder why you even post here. You clearly don't think highly of most of the posters here, you don't like that DOL is a forum where we can come and talk openly about use corrections, tools like prongs and e-collars without being flamed to hell and back. You say you don't care how other people train and that you don't judge others but you come across as one of the most judgmental and arrogant posters I've seen on DOL. Do you hang around because it makes you feel good about yourself seeing how we're stuck in the past and feel "threatened by changing trends"? Do you enjoy going on other forums to have a laugh about how backwards we are and let other posters pat you on the back for being so progressive? Does it make you feel good to find posters who have been banned from DOL agreeing with you about how the trainers and behaviourists who post here don't have a clue what they are talking about? Do you really think that all the trainers and behaviourists who you detest so much don't use rewards and base all their training on the use of corrections, and chuck tools like prongs and e-collars on every dog that comes to them for training? I thought you didn't care how other people trained their dogs?

He wouldn't be protecting you, but the behaviour could be fear driven. Have you thought about having a one on one session with a reputable behaviourist? They will be able to assess your dog and give you a training program suitable for him. I see you are in WA, I think most DOLers over there recommend Kathy Kopellis McLeod.