huski

LOL Jaybeece - my dogs go wild for sardines (or mackeral) too - luckily for me they go wild for other kinds of less smelly food too Might be worth seeing if he'd work for dried fish treats? I have some of the fish treats from GSDs4ever that the dogs really like :D http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=156602

And what happens when roast beef doesn't work? I can and have many a time shoved food under Daisy's nose when she's on a scent and she doesn't even notice it. I've used it all - raw meat, cooked steak, chicken, bacon, sausage and even donuts. Sometimes, nothing can compete with the urge to scent. In which case I might use an interruptor not as a punishment, but like Staranais described, as something neither positive nor negative, just something to get her attention. But in the situation I described, she didn't need to know what it meant like she would a command like sit. It was used as a way to interrupt what she was doing so I could stop her doing it. If I'd just let it slide, she would have grabbed the food and gotten a reward for doing so by eating it. Sometimes it's quicker to say 'ah' then it is to grab them if you are a distance away from them. Unfortunately Daisy was never a soft dog, if she was maybe I would have had to find a different way to deal with her It worked for her though (as much as you might believe it's flawed and/or ineffective). Of course it can be easily solved in theory, but like you said we all make mistakes - leaving something where you don't think the pup is going to be able to reach it yet they can and do, or not thinking ahead and putting them away when you should have. Different things will work for different dogs. Some dogs need to be told 'no' (or an equivalent). Dogs do it to other dogs, yet it's unacceptable or undesirable for people to consider using a "negative"? What is there for the dog to understand about 'ah ah' if you are using it to simply interrupt their action? I've not ever had a dog look confused when I've given a good 'ah' and I've always found it very effective. I've never had a dog look wounded and sulk off and refuse to come near me afterwards. Why wouldn't I want to use something that's worked well for my dogs? I guess the difference is that I don't necessarily look at "negatives" as something bad or ineffective or something to use as a last result. Negative or positive, I'm much more interested in using what works for the dog

I use a 'no' marker just like I use a 'yes' marker, IMO it makes communicating to the dog easier and clearer for them. I don't know why using a no marker has to be looked at as something negative, in the instance of just letting the dog know that 'nope, you didn't get it, try again'. I know at least with Daisy, it stops her getting overly frustrated and helps her understand things in a clearer way. What happens if (like you say above) the dog does something he shouldn't, or offers the wrong behaviour, and you tell him what you want him to do but he ignores you - do you keep repeating the command until he gets it right? How do you proof the right behaviour if you remove any opportunity to communicate to the dog that they've got it wrong? Why is giving them a NRM 'bad'? ETA: I don't think you could control the dog's environment so much that they never develop a behaviour that needs correcting or that they never need to be told they've done the wrong thing. Neutralisation as far as I can tell is not about raising the dog so you never have to tell them they've got it wrong. For example - look at how we teach loose leash walking. Aren't using the 'change of direction' or 'stop like a tree' techniques both ways of using a form of interruptor or "negative" marker because you're teaching the dog that 'no, pulling will not get you where you want to go'. You would also have to assume that you have a dog who cares if you've reinforced something 'positively like hell' and isn't ever going to challenge you when it comes to what he wants to do vs what you want to do. ETA2: This reminds me a little bit of the conversation I had with the DELTA instructor who took our puppy school class. She, too, told us not to use interruptors and to never say no or ah ah to our pups. I asked her what I should do when Daisy walked up to the coffee table and stole food right off my plate the night before - she was only a little pup so we didn't have a command like 'look' or 'come' that was solid enough for us to use as a way to stop or distract her - I could hardly expect her to know what all the rules were (i.e. that taking food off plates is not allowed) that early on. Oddly enough she couldn't really give me an answer. IMO it was better to use an interruptor like 'no' or 'ah ah' in that situation to stop her than it was to just let her eat food off my plate in the interest of only using purely positive methods.

Really? Everything I've actually read and learnt has said the opposite, that citronella collars have a much lower success rate than e-collars, for several reasons including that the citronella smell used as the 'punishment' can stick on the dogs coat thus 'punishing' the dog long after the thing they were corrected for (barking) occurred.

No definitely not in my experience - what are you feeding her? What happens when she gets an upset tummy? How often does it happen?

Totally agree with this - I walk Daisy down to my local sport oval and we'll stop and do a bit of training. At the end I'll let her have 'free' time where she can walk further ahead and scent to her hearts content and then I'll call her back and we'll do a bit more training and then I'll release her again and so on and so forth. It also works in my favour because she learns if I interrupt her scenting she'll get to do lots of fun training and get lots of rewards for giving me focus. I agree on the difference between loose leash walking and heel too - I expect loose leash walking when we are out and about but when I say 'heel' I expect the dog to come to formal heel position with 110% attention and focus on me. I can do this with Daisy on walks now (after a lot of training and time and patience!) - I say 'look' or 'heel' and she'll come to heel position and give me all her attention. I wouldn't expect her to heel the entire walk though!

The thing that makes beagles tough to teach loose leash walking to is their stubborness like Nekhbet said but also the fact that scenting is the ultimate reward for them. Daisy has a high food drive but I could shove food under her nose when she's on a scent and she won't even notice it's there. Every time they pull on the leash and get to scent they are getting a reward for pulling, this is why teaching loose leash walking can be so tough with beagles as they so easily get a big reward for pulling. They quickly learn that pulling not only gets them where the want to go but that they get a reward for doing so. Daisy knows now that she can scent on a walk as long as it's on a loose leash, as soon as she pulls so there is tension in the leash the 'privilege' of scenting is lost - I stop or change direction or put her in the heel position. I also use the 'look' command a lot on walks to keep her focus - if she looks at me without me asking I often praise her and give her a treat, so she sees the value of focusing on me and walking nicely on the leash.

I'd be very disappointed in any trainer who recommended putting a gentle leader on a pup in a puppy class of all places!! My goodness. Not a very good trainer if you ask me. Many dogs find head collars quite aversive even when you've tried to train them to wear them. Her reaction is not unusual - she would have been quite uncomfortable to have the reaction she did, dogs have a lot of sensitive nerve points located in their face which is part of the reason many find head collars unpleasant to wear. The pressure head collars apply to the dog's face can be quite stressful and painful which is one reason you should never put one on a pup. What training techniques have you tried with her already? If you have a read of my first post in this thread you'll see what I found worked for me (Daisy was a terrible puller). However, if you're really struggling it might be a good investment to consult with a knowledgeable trainer so they can give you some pointers - whereabouts are you, maybe we can recommend you someone whose first thought isn't to put a head collar on a pup?

The thing is some people need the assistance that one on one training gives you. Not everyone finds reading the theory and putting it into practice easy or something that achieves results for themselves and their dog. Reading bits and pieces from the net can also be a lot of trial and error, whereas a trainer will be able to pin point where you are going wrong and what method will be right for you and your dog. The benefit of seeing a trainer is that you don't always know what it is you are doing wrong and a good trainer can give you instruction on how to get it right. It isn't about how much time someone has, it's about how capable they feel at handling their dog. That's not to say the info we find on net and in books is useless, I've always found it very helpful but nothing compares to the guidance you get from working one on one with a good trainer

That was taken at a DOL meet, the same DOL meet where she stole two Krispy Kreme donuts right out of the box :rolleyes:

I don't have many...

She's very cute! And definitely a cav

Sorry to hear that Squid

My apologies to the OP if that's the case after looking at the pic it does look like her pup is purebred, and if the pup was in fact sold at 8 weeks, the breeder could very well be a reputable one.

But you just said she was a cocker spaniel Sorry, but they don't sound like reputable breeders at all, they sold her too young and don't even know what the breed is called! If the name they sold you the pup under is any indication I would bet that she's a crossbreed.

Cavalier King Charles Spaniels and Cocker Spaniels are two totally different breeds - is she a cross between the two breeds? I'd be taking her off to the vet for a check up.

I've heard of them, but I don't know too much about them. However, I know of a few people who have done their puppy school and apparently their socialisation classes are very good and well supervised.

I second Clyde's advice, have you enrolled him in a puppy school yet?

luvdogs - the OP is on the Sunshine Coast, not the Gold coast

It's a great link - I raise all my dogs on the NILIF principle :D I also love the triangle of temptation, because my dogs are all very food driven :D http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=64101

Give Erny a call, Elfin. She'll sort you out :D

Ah, sorry Bax. I'm not sure about clubs or puppy schools on the sunny coast. I know of one at Caboolture but that would probably be too far for you.

Even now when Daisy is 2 1/2 I still end training sessions on a high note and keep them relatively short - pups have a really short attention span so like PF suggested, don't draw training sessions out. Always end when the puppy is still interested and before his attention starts waning - even if training sessions only go for 30seconds - a minute. I've always found this article useful ;) http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

I agree with Poodlefan ;) BTW - when it comes to puppy pre school, you don't need to wait until the pup is fully vaccinated to attend them. In fact, it's most advisable not to wait at all. Most pups attend puppy school from 8-12 weeks. I would be making sure you are still socialising him (that is, giving him new, positive experiences) - you don't want to put it off until he's fully vaccinated because the puppy's most critical period for socialisation is between 8-12 weeks. Whereabouts are you in QLD?

I too am wondering how this will help - the pup is going to be toileting outside because that's it's only option, it won't be learning not to toilet in the house. I've seen this happen so many times, people put the puppy/dog outside because it keeps toileting inside, the dog still toilets when it's let inside because it hasn't been taught otherwise - so back outside he goes until he is rarely let inside anymore, as the owners get more and more frustrated that the dog still toilets inside. Not really - you didn't mention any other options, you just said to push the dog on the ground and make sure it wasn't a "pansy" push, because when you have kids you need to be forceful. Total rubbish IMO when we are dealing with an eight week old pup. An 8.5 week old pup isn't going to know the rules. Often, we think the pup "knows" what it's done wrong when it really doesn't have a clue because we haven't been clear and consistent enough. You see it all the time when people go on about their pups toileting inside even though "they know better" or they "know that they are doing the wrong thing".