huski

Totally agree with the above. We had a puppy pre school teacher who was a PP trainer. She told me I could never say no to my puppy, I couldn't do this or that, that she had sit on her mat quietly and calmly for the 60 minute+ puppy class. The only way she could succeed in getting Daisy to "behave" was feeding her pigs ear after pigs ear after pigs ear and at the end of the class I had a puppy acting like a kid on red cordial. I don't think teaching a pup the rules or boundaries is about correcting them and using aversives, and when it comes to teaching a baby pup I would rely most on removing the reward not issuing corrections. But not everything you do with your pup or dog is going to be pleasant for them and I still struggle to see just what is so wrong or evil about holding your pup till he stops squirming or giving a no or ah ah. Sometimes I think the anti-punishment/corrections/aversive brigade border on paranoia, surely more damage will be done letting a pup or dog get away with bad behaviour than would ever happen by telling them no or holding them until the stop squirming.

Cos, do you find many clients with dogs who they bought home too early (i.e. 6 weeks) have more problems with bite inhibition than people who got their pups at an older age?

I've read Dunbar's views on teaching bite inhibition before and I have to admit I find them quite bizarre. A dog biting because it's scared is completely different to teaching bite inhibition, I don't even know why the two are compared

I never! I expressed my distrust of behaviourists that don't know as much as I do. ;) There's a difference. Would you trust a behaviourist that didn't know as much as you did? You might notice my first post was not that long. I find I constantly have to expand to cover every freaking eventuality or I get nailed. And yes, people here do often agree with me. It just takes 3 pages of long posts with me covering every freaking evenutality to establish that. I already knew that!!! I don't want to write long posts. I'd be happy if people just answered my questions without provoking me to explain myself in great detail. ;) Well, seeing as you said you don't think much of the pseudo-science 'touted' by the trainers and behaviourists on DOL, one would wonder who would be someone who 'knows as much as you do'

It was you who said that if you were to teach Erik the rules, that would mean using aversive methods. It worries me to think that you are avoiding being consistent, and teaching him the rules and yes, enforcing them (i.e. teaching him that he can't win with undesirable behaviour, even if it's as simple as removing what he wants) because you think doing so would have to involve aversives. If the puppy is anything like the two shit heads I've had then consistency is the key - you give than an inch and they will take a mile. If the pup develops bad habits they will only be harder to break the longer you let him get away with them. Shitheads are smart and they will take advantage of you if you allow them to. Of course dogs have to accept things that can be unpleasant. Such is life. Daisy hates having her ears cleaned, and her nails trimmed, but she will sit there while I do it and she will tolerate it. You say you're not interested in introducing aversives ever if you can avoid it, but realistically, I don't see it as something that can be avoided. The other day at the vet Daisy had to have a thermometer put up her bum - I can guarantee you she didn't like it but she tolerated it just like she does when I trim her nails or clean her ears. These things are inevitable and I'd much rather teach my dogs from puppyhood that yes, some things are unpleasant but that if they behave they'll be rewarded for it. I don't mean I won't ever expose pups to situations they may not like, or situations where they may chuck a tanty about it, but that when it comes to reinforcing the behaviour I want to see I'd generally remove the reward rather than issue a correction.

Good luck! The nerves will really get me too when I finally enter a trial with Daisy

Corvus, why does enforcing rules and boundaries have to involve aversives? The removal of a reward is probably all I'd do with a pup Erik's age. I'm a little surprised you think that anyone who sets rules with their pups have to do so with punishment/aversives What punishment or aversives do you think you'd have to use to teach or enforce rules with Erik?

Dee I'm so very sorry. You made the best decision for you, your family, and Evie. You did everything you could do for her Run free Evie

Unless your dog isn't motivated by praise Bribes work unless your dog would rather do something else than eat When I use food in training they aren't used as bribes. What motivates every dog is different, some dogs aren't interested in praise, some dogs are only interested in a tug or food. My dog is mainly interested in scenting but she has a reasonable food drive too

Holy crap Katherine I am so very sorry, Bella was such a beautiful girl. Run free gorgeous girl

I think anyone would be too frightened to give you advice, Corvus, you'd argue with them the entire time

I am not saying they are all the same, I'm saying they all follow the same basic set of rules (and I'm talking dogs here, not rabbits & hares) This works. This doesn't. That was pleasant, I am more likely to do it again. That was unpleasant, I am less likely to do it again. That behaviour was accepted, this was not. Don't be sad for me. All I aim for is consistency with my dogs. I try to treat them in a consistent manner & I feel they are pretty consistent in return. I am not cruel to my dogs, but I expect them to obey the commands I have taught them. I cannot imagine any of them biting me because of something I do to them. Believe it or not they are all quite obedient and incredibly motivated to train with me...so please...don't be sad for me! You can't force a dog to be motivated & enjoy training. Motivation comes with consistency and a solid reward history. Black & white. This works, this doesn't. If you are happy with your relationship with your dogs & your ability to get the best out of them, then that is all that matters. Well said, Vickie. I totally agree :D Dogs will form habits when they find particular behaviours work for them. If they gain success from x behaviour, of course they are going to want to exhibit it again, it's not complicated. Daisy has always been a challenging dog and I found I had the most success when I was black and white with my approach i.e. undesirable behaviour doesn't get what you want; desirable behaviour will get you what you want. ETA: I found the hardest thing with a challenging dog is that bad behaviour can quite easily become a habit if you let them win with it. Daisy is so stubborn and strong willed, and smart - she only needs to learn something will work once to get her what she wants before she'll try it on again and again and again.

I know! I felt like one of those weird dog people from Best in Show. Cos I'm so not one already. Mmm. *shifty eyes*

huski,I'm sure you checked it but just be careful of the salt content. The other day i brought packet from a korean supermarket to put in miso soup and they are generally very high in salt. Not sure whether it is the same as the ones you brought. I did check and the back of the packet didn't stipulate how much salt was in them - I licked one (ew ew ew) and it didn't taste very salty.

I had a look at the back of the packet and it doesn't list salt or the amount of salt in it. I actually licked one (ew ew ew) and it didn't taste very salty. I figure for an occasional treat they'd be ok.

Sardines are tricky as they tend to disintegrate so easily! Lately I've been using cooked beef sausages chopped into tiny pieces, but I ran out the other day when I left them to defrost in the sink and the cat ate the whole lot

I was at the local Chinese supermarket today and they had big packets of dried whole anchovies (heads and all) for $2.50 a packet. I'm not sure about the nutritional value, but the dogs love them for a treat!

Ok, I found great training treats today. I was at my local Chinese supermarket and they had dried whole anchovies (heads and all) - a big packet for $2.50. Well, I tried them out on Daisy today with great success they aren't too stinky, and although they are dried aren't really brittle - they are almost chewy (I didn't eat one, but that's what I deduced from trying to break one in half). Normally I can't use dried treats when I get Daisy working in drive because she doesn't chew and just swallows, and then they get stuck in her throat and she coughs them back up. But because the dried anchovies aren't that brittle she doesn't seem to have a problem :D I should have gotten a few packets!

I use Sasha's Blend here. I've noticed a difference in Micha since he's been on it, he's definitely not as stiff and sore as he was before.

I feed the cat Artemis and Cherry gets EPH, so I'd vote both Artemis and Eagle Pack

I feed raw myself, but there are lots of things you can add to your pups diet when they are on raw food. Raw meaty bones like chicken wings, necks or frames; lamb necks/forequarters/off cuts; turkey wings and necks etc are all great for your pup especially for his teeth. When I fed dried food, I often fed one meal raw; then the next meal dried etc. You could also consider getting some tins of sardines or mackeral and mixing this in with his dried food or feeding him a tin on its own. My dogs LOVE their tinned sardines/mackeral and it's great for their coats. Raw egg and natural yoghurt are also great to mix into their dried food. And most importantly, we need pics!! Baby beagles make me so puppy clucky ETA: I'd be giving him 15 minutes max to eat his food and if he doesn't eat it within that time (i.e. walks away from his food bowl) I'd take it away until the next meal.

Unless your dog isn't motivated by praise

I would definitely try the fish based Eagle Pack Holistic. We've had Cherry on this for a while now and she's doing really well on it.

You might want to try giving her some tinned sardines or mackeral for dinner, it's great for their coat and putting weight on and dogs go wild for it!

Steve does a distance package on drive training I have a dog here whose like that too, Jules, he won't tug with me at all, but has a pretty high prey drive when it comes to balls, especially squeaky ones like cuz toys. He's got the softest mouth, he is just too much of a gentleman to tug