persephone

have you fed him with another (preferably gutsy dog/pup? )

?eggs & bacon? slices of liver, seared? lamb brains? Toast & butter? kangaroo mince? Poor boy and poor you.

computer programs tho, do not give you that smell, or the feel of things, or the movement ..or the knowledge of actually being inside something living ...fantastic tools that they are ... Not sure why you'd want to mention him. :D

Stray dogs/dogs in pounds are often very scared ...some of them may have never been inside a big building ..they were with unknown people ..Not every dog waltzes happily into an unknown place with all the smells etc ... MY OWN dog used to wet himself and sit with teeth chattering whenever he went to the vet Sometimes I had to carry him .

Phone your vet , or another clinic, and ask their advice ..hope your guys are ok

leeLa- a looong time ago

pet owner. in past lives I have worked in kennels,worked with breeding labradors, trained dogs to be guides for vision impaired folks, and trained dogs as therapy dogs .I have worked part time as vet nurse/receptionist.have had working sheepdogs on the family property ..

definitely speak with the behaviourist and consulting vet first..and ,if possible see the dog . Poor thing- it does sound severe- and I'm guessing a bark collar will not be taking away any of that anxiety I don't know ..,but 'perhaps' the behaviour may be different in another environment ,without the same triggers? *sigh* Poor lady, and poor dog.

Perhaps- instead of occasional marrow bones- which are very hard- and don't have much nutrition (except the marrow- which can cause upset tummies as it is FAT).. why not feed softer bones every day or two? That way they get regular chewing ..and a meal ..and you have less time to have to keep them separate Bones like chicken frames , turkey wings/necks/lamb flaps (with rib bone sections..) Beef brisket.

julzjc.... hi. just hoping you are OK - whatever the news was . Indie has been much in my thoughts.

The 'conscientious objectors' were the ones who went out & did the work .. There are some pretty horrific descriptions of the live animal procedures .. and tales of students obtaining recently deceased animals from farms. Most seem to be O'seas though , the majority being from the US. There are lots of cadaver use stories .. and an interesting point of view from a vet who is Buddhist . It was an interesting read - hasn't changed my mind , altho it has given me some understanding of the difficulties facing students. Mind you, I did a quick read thru only ...

'shelter' animals , and spey/castration clinics, apparently.

The book "Learning without Killing' is online HERE I have just given it a quick read... it's basically a manual on how to carry out the conscientious Objection .... and it also has stories from vets who have done so, and how they fared, what they used as alternatives , and what they learnt. There are lots of pages of references and sources for resources.

Hmm... often no news is bad news .I hope Julzjc is OK.

cowanbree - sometimes though, an animal IS calmer without a stressed owner holding it/hovering over it ,and therefore procedures often go much more smoothly

I can't imagine a pound going to the trouble/expense of getting speys done after hours! ?

This sounds a bit odd ... But if it is all as you say - then get your friend to contact the breeder of their dog/s .. and inform them . Perhaps they can help?

*nods*

Luckily, distressing incidents area rarity when it comes to that final needle .. it's an awful time for everyone, and it does leave a horrible final memory picture. I think I've shared this before ..but it is an image which helps me a lot... The vet where I worked had a litter of unwanted newborn puppies brought in to be put down..... so - we made up a bed in a box ..put a hot water bottle in .. and injected them into the abdomen with the lethabarb.. The dear little things just snuggled up onto the hot water bottle ..all in a cuddly heap, and went peacefully to sleep for ever after a few minutes .. it was just so gentle .... I sometimes use this story of their passing to describe to folks that it really can be a gentle ending ....

With old/ill cats - with veins hard to use , we sometimes used to inject into a kidney ... and with tiny babies .. an injection into the abdominal cavity . These methods work, and in puppies, it just takes a few minutes . Poor veins are a hazard in human medicine as well

Comfrey is usually applied externally as a paste/poultice . There are concerns that,taken internally it can cause liver problems...

Sorry for your friends .. I have seen it happen , veins can collapse due to illness.. or the needle can go straight thru .. or get blocked- and yes, it does make it very hard to watch.If we thought things may be difficult, we would ask owners to just step out for a minute .

Hi - Good for you in seeking help I would strongly advise you to seek the help of a well respected professional on this one. It is something which needs to be handled in the right way, so as to not make things worse for your poor boy Sounds as if he has always had a bit of a problem.. but this fright has made him very anxious If you tell us where you are /city/town then someone on here who knows a good professional can recommend them to you . It is preferable to get someone 'known' rather than muck aorund with unknown franchises etc. I hope all ends well, and that your boy can be happy again.

Hey-

budgieW- perhaps ask you parents about this story- ask them to explain it now you are adult ;)