SkySoaringMagpie

Depends how much $$$ you have and how well the contract was written. I also think it depends on your "weight" in show world and whether you are contracting with people who are fundamentally decent or concerned about their reputation. Those people will follow the contract, but might not have done the same thing without a contract. I think it's the joint names that has the most effect - if you have a dog in co-ownership, and your co-owner won't sign the form for a litter registration, you can't breed on with them and register them. You can BYB of course (and some other stuff I won't go into here).

What are the solutions that you think work best?

I nearly posted this in breeders but thought it might be good to get a wider view. It seems like there are two schools of thought when it comes to selling pure breed dogs. One is that no-one can be trusted fully to do the right thing, and that pups should be sold desexed, with a vasectomy or when sold to show homes, on joint terms with a contract that aims to prevent the purchaser from doing anything without the consent of the breeder. The other school of thought is that you do your best to vet people, but you sell outright and entire. What do you think? Each have their pro and con arguments but I thought I would put the question first without putting the arguments.

Well bugger. Hope your back comes right quickly, we'll miss you around the hounds.

Sure, especially if you know you have something they might like better now. If they are pleasant and do a consistent job I'll also consider them for appointments - I don't care if they like my stuff or not for that. I think tho' that there are some areas where personal preferences show when perhaps they shouldn't - Tenties are one, undocked examples of docked breeds and neuters are others. None of those things affect my breed or my dogs so this is observation rather than a personal issue.

I am not a terrier person and even I have noticed this when watching the terrier group. I've also noticed that some judges make it clear what their views on Tenterfields are while judging the breed too. Stuff like shrugging shoulders and disdainfully pointing with half their back turned. I assume it must annoy the Westie people too because they are stuck behind you in the age classes! Whippets are such a strong breed in Hounds that I can't recall the last time a class was awarded before everyone was in our ring, unless it was due to someone running up late, and that's not the judge's problem, but the steward's. I think for the sighthound people anyway the pet peeve is people who eyeball like mad and then approach straight from the front. I know that you have to look at the dog, but you can look with a soft eye and without staring. To be fair tho', perhaps we should start a thread for judges to talk about their exhibitor pet peeves. I know as a steward I have some (one lead, 6 dogs).

This. Having a baby is the other big one, I know heaps of people who have successfully managed having a baby in a household with dogs but very few people will question someone who says they got rid of a dog because of the baby.

Yay!

Me too. I also want to thank you both for bringing your babies to the structure lecture so we could all learn from them, and for posting here in detail about this issue, the testing options you have tried and the modes of inheritance. I know things suck now and this might be cold comfort, but I think you've helped a lot of people learn more.

It varied, but the key point for me is that there was no fancy supplementation regime or top shelf puppy food and they often lived on very short rations in harsh environments. I think it is important not to over feed a Saluki, and by that I also mean not overloading their systems with things their liver and kidneys just have to filter out, as well as not giving them too many calories. When Pat Hastings was here she talked about the marketing game of dog food, and how additional stuff is added to it and played with on the label to influence the consumer to think that they are buying the best for their dog when in fact a good quality dog food is a good quality dog food and doesn't need ground yak's toenails in it to be any better than another dog food. She didn't mention the yak, that is my embellishment

Agree with the others that it is no good giving a command that you can't enforce if the dog doesn't respond. We recently moved some cows into the front paddock and it's also a moonlit night. I just called one of our bitches who is fascinated by the cows and she didn't recall. So I got a lead and walked out there. When she saw me she trotted dutifully up to the door, I did not have to leash her. I call that the "Oh. You mean it." moment. If I had just stayed inside and left it pretty soon that recall command would be ignored on a regular basis. You may find training separately is useful. Ultimately tho' you have to out stubborn them. Sometimes I have spent 15 minutes with our IW adolescent in a battle of wills at doorways. I would rather spend the 15 minutes now and get compliance than have a 70 kilo dog pushing in and out at will later on. By out stubborn I don't mean being heavy handed or rough, I mean setting criteria, and patiently sticking to it even if you'd rather be watching tv with a glass of wine.

I asked that question so long ago I've forgotten now why I asked it!

People have written about it but I don't know of any actual studies. I think it's fascinating as a concept, Kia, it's about environmental influences on genetics (put very roughly, I am no geneticist)

SSM - Saluki, 15 July all being well :D

In the case of the rapture, I think those left behind get 7 years of pestilence, disaster and death before the second coming. Dunno about the Mayan end of the world, they didn't teach us about that in Religious Ed!

:rofl: :rofl:

I think you've picked up on an important point. Perhaps people are a little travel fatigued at this time of year. After the Sydney Easter Specialities Keshwar and I look forward to getting back to the more relaxed pace of the local country shows. There is a season for traveling to Sydney and beyond, and as far as we are concerned it is over now until October unless the show is very attractive and easy to plan for and to get to. Also, a lot of people are out on the circuit now and tend to stay there. Edit - also wanted to add that sometimes people from Sydney make snide or backhanded remarks about the country shows as if people who attend them are somehow avoiding real competition. I think the country shows are holding their own in quality and numbers.

Some murmers can and do just appear and they can go away. Can be caused by a simple infection that an owner might not even notice. Had it happen to one of mine when she was around 5 or 6, wasn't there on any vet checks, was suddenly there on one vet check, gone the next. Granted it was only a mild one but even the more serious can pop up later in life. The other thing that can cause a murmur to appear is taurine deficiency. If you feed a good quality adult kibble that won't occur, but if you're feeding something odd it can. EFS

If it helps, when I was a lot newer I was showing to an English judge and she looked at me and said "teeth". I stood there baffled and she said "Teeth!" a bit impatiently. "TEETH!!". At that point I had the brain to say "sorry, I'm a bit new to this" and she softened up and said "Show me her teeth"

When you're new to the ring there is a lot you don't "see". The longer you show and watch people show, the more you see, especially if you have a wise old showie standing near you explaining things. It depends a bit on what you want to achieve, and it's best to walk before you run (so to speak). That said: A good handler gets the best out of the dog, presenting an attractive picture and hiding or drawing the eye away from any bad points. To do this you have to have an eye for a dog and know your breed. You need to know what is good and not so good about your dog, and what the judge wants to see. You also need to be a decent trainer. What if your dog paces all the time? Won't stack? Does all the right things but is just flat and boring in the ring? How will you fix that? Finally, you need to be well presented and confident without being OTT about it. Also, bear in mind that what some people consider great handling, others consider awful. People have different views on what looks good and how best to achieve it. A Saluki going around like a bat out of hell and then wagging its tail while baiting in the line up might impress some judges but you're likely to get a lecture if you do that while showing to a specialist. So it comes back to knowing your breed and having a fair idea what the judge is after. Finally a good handler has to be able to deal effectively with the dirty handling that will eventually come their way without getting rattled. I like Pat Hastings "Tricks of the Trade" and George Alston's "The Winning Edge" books.

If it wins enough I'd say most folk will think its good enough. I agree with both of you. I think Conztruct is describing the ideal, I think PF is in touch with the reality.

What do you want? It's always best to know that before you go in to a discussion. Are you prepared to send the pup back or have you formed an emotional bond with it? If this was me, I would tell the breeder what my vet has found, and suggest that I get a second opinion from a vet experienced with giant breeds or an orthopedic specialist. I'd do that because our show dogs are also companions. Others might simply send the dog back without further ado. Once I had that second opinion, I'd be in a better position to decide what to do. My personal view is that shit happens. If you don't want another dog from the breeder then I think you have to cut your losses if they don't offer a refund. If you are prepared to get another dog from the breeder and the second opinion supports your vet's diagnosis then you can negotiate from there.

How come only Friday? What about the rest of the weekend? Just wanna know. Hound Club Agility Trial on Saturday, IW Family Day on Sunday. Not sure the latter applies to PF but the former does :D

Yep the poor losers have an excuse for every occasion & they have the hide to questions judges ethics It is true that some people are bad losers and that the peanut gallery is often misinformed and/or incompetent and certainly driven by self interest. However, are you both saying you feel there is no problem at all with corruption and cronyism in the sport? Edited to fix quotes

At one regional show last year the club president took his family to dinner with the judges and the family members showed to them the next day and won. It looked bad, and didn't reflect well on the club or the judges. We don't all complain; it's only a dog show after all. However, many of us notice and adjust our show programs to suit. In smaller remote centres where there are nowhere near the shows we have in eastern NSW it is a more difficult issue but if you live within 350 ks of the NSW coast I have trouble seeing an argument for showing at a club where you are on the executive committee. I'm a club secretary for two clubs where the executive commitee do not show so I miss 4 group shows and 4 AB shows a year. I am far from unique or special in this respect. I would have more interest in klink's concerns if he could let us know how many clubs he runs shows for. From my perspective, the biggest weapon we have against corruption is people who are prepared to put the work in on properly run and accountable committees. And there are nowhere near enough of those people around.