Steve

Im sorry you feel on trial that wasnt my intention and you shouldnt feel that my comments were aiming right at you but rather everyone who is reading this. I know shit happens but we all have to learn from not only what we do but what we see others do too and I couldnt let you go without pointing out to everyone that ideally we shouldnt breed a dog which has been diagnosed with a genetic heritable condition unless we have a good reason for doing so. Relax Im not beating you up for mistakes already made Im just having a stab at helping you to be sure you cover your bases and to be sure anyone else who may not have considered this type of thing gets the message too.

Thank you all so much for your offers to help! Enigma has the delivery sorted for dog and cat food but we also have 14 ponies, 6 horses,2 donkeys and 30 chooks.We will need oat chaff,lucerne chaff,calm performer and copra. Plus chook food. Don't suppose anyone has any idea of how much a horse usually eats and how much we are going to need to feed this many for about 12 weeks? Probably our only avenue with this stock food is to purchase it from a nearby stock feed place and have it delivered. I think - but Ill look into it. Julie Oh yes we will also need a bit of budgie food and fish food.

O.K. I get that - what do you intend to do to make sure its not going to be passed on any further ? Do you have any of her pups kept for breeding are the other pups from previous litters desexed,have you informed the owners of all of the pups about what to watch for ? Have you notified her breeder and her sire's owner so they can mark it on their pedigrees too? How old was she when she was diagnosed with ESP?

Agree. Sorry, but if you are aware that you are not fabulous with english, regardless of the reason, then you should have someone else proof read or you should utilise things like spellcheck. Plain and simple. Communication is a very important tool and it should be effective. To not have it checked is simply laziness and poor management. I would be wondering what other lazy or poorly made decisions they would be making when it came to their breeding programs and the care overall of their dogs. Lots of people dont even know what a spell checker is. Not everyone is computer literate either.

I don't disagree with you, however this was only one example of many on the site. Personally I would think that an adult with such bad written skills would be aware of it and would either get someone else to write the ad for them or at least get someone to check it before posting it. I picked that ad in particular because I love Dobes, and I worry about the kind of people that will be buying these puppies. The seller doesn't sound like a bad person, just ignorant and uninformed. There are a couple of really good breeders of dobes who are not that posh with English. I dont think they are ignorant or un informed - in fact the couple I know are very knowledgeable of their breed and are fussy about where their pups go. they just cant spell or speak very good English.

Id also like to ad that no law in Australia can over ride federal law - which means we cant stop people farming puppies,we cant restrict how many they own or breed or where they sell,where they advertise them or how they advertise them assuming of course they comply with POCTA, mandatory state codes and by laws for development applications etc. People have a right to breed dogs, sell them and make a lot of money off them and anything anyone does which stops them or restricts them from doing that and competing in an open market is illegal. This is why the MDBA set up under the legal entity we did rather than an association - because we can restrict our members.

Exactly. Not only that, the person may not have have broken any rules what so ever. We have a thing in this country called the trade practices act. That act takes precedence over all. If it didn't we could have put the word puppy farmer to rest. Does that mean that we can basically do anything we like despite what the Code of Ethics say, so long as it is for the benefit of financial gain? Surely not I'm so living in fairyland. If this is true, the whole pedigree show world is a farce. Sort of - with regards to where you can sell them and to whom - for example federal law says we can sell our puppies to pet shops and if the CC's stop that then its called restriction of trade and its not able to be enforced. In part this is because the ANKC is the only governing stud registry which is affiliated with the FCI and if want to have our puppies pedigrees internationally recognised we have no choice but to be a CC member. If there were two so therefore we had a choice that would be different and we could choose to be in one which restricted us when the other didnt. Thats never going to happen even if a new registry was started as FCI rules say only one regsitry per country is able to be accepted. We also have the right to put our own prices on things and services. Any Australian code which still has a clause which prohibits where a breeder can sell their puppies or to whom simply means that no one as yet has disputed the wording with the ACCC. From my converstation with the person who advertised the only thing that is a bit different is that she charges two different prices depending on whether the person getting the service shows their dogs. Thats her right and the minute you start pushing for set prices etc then you are in the realm of price fixing which is also a federal offence.

http://www.critteradvocacy.org/Canine%20Va...20Guidlines.htm This one says at least 7 years for Parvo.

You win I only got a dozen.

Eukanuba donate dog and cat food to us which we now have Enigma transporting for us from where it was delivered this time in Tyabb to the counsellors office in King Lake. Im just waiting on clarification of exactly how many horses, donkeys and chooks we need to feed too. We dont have any of that on hand via donations so we will need to purchase it for them from a local stock feed place so any donations would definitely help. It looks like being support needed for about 12 weeks so we will need a fair bit I think but will know more about how much when I get exact numbers.

Im glad to hear your girl has settled down now. Have to say though elongated soft palet is a genetic condition which is heritable and in reality she shouldn't have been used for breeding once this was diagnosed.

O.K. Good Ill mark you on the map. Julie

Does anyone know the best place in or near King Lake to buy stock feeds?

Thank you. Ill keep you in mind. How far is Doncaster from King lake?

Excellent! Could you give me a ring when you can 0269276707 Julie

No rules have been broken or will be broken - Ive rung and had a chat to the lady in question. She doesn't allow her dogs to go out to dogs which are not on main register. Nothing to worry about. I was happy with her explanation and so will QCCC Julie

I hate this bit because Im hopeless at the geography. We have dog and cat food at Tyab on the morning ton Peninsular and it will need to be transported from there to King lake. Julie

We have some people in the King Lake area of Victoria who have come to our attention via one of the counsellors still working in this area. These people have to date not asked for any help and have battled through so far trying to put their lives back together but with winter here their struggle is now at a point where they have no choice but to ask for help or they will need to surrender their animals. There are dogs, cats, chooks, horses and donkeys - in total 34 animals which need food. We have made sure that this isnt just a bandaid and that it will in fact simply support them while they get to a point where they can again feed and care for their animals and a counsellor will continue to work with them to help out on the human side of things. So if there is anyone close to this area who could possibly donate some food [dog cat chook horse ] or if anyone could help us out with this we could sure use the support. We have some dog and cat food donated by Eukanuba stored around 100 kms away from King lake so we may need to ask for someone to help get it to King lake if we cant find any available closer too. This is a great demonstration of why having individual local Pacers clubs in towns all over Australia will stream line things and make it much easier to source help when it comes to people who need us. Julie

I second this. As a new breeder in Cavaliers having great support from mentors with decades of experience behind them is worth its weight in gold. There is so much to learn, books & DVD's are great but they can't cover every aspect of breeding and having those faithful trusted ears to listen and point you in the right direction is very important. Like yourself i owned cavaliers for many years prior and when deciding to start out on my own and become a registered breeder i found it is really hard. Lots of challenges, heart aches and disappointments. Tears will be shead, bank accounts will be empty. I've made mistakes, big ones...but it is a learning process and that extra support pays off like with with my first litter as there were complications and the good thing is there is people that will support you and help you. Be focused, listen and although there is those who throw you negative feedback that is part of dog breeding and you learn to either justify or dimiss those remarks. Feel free to PM to chat. So how does anyone - as a new kid - know that the mentor is a good mentor or not?

Me too.

Im happy to ring them and be up front about who I am and ask the questions. Send me the phone number [email protected]

But you don't know if its the same dog either. They may have one on main register and one with no papers. the codes of ethics for the CC's don't stop people breeding cross bred dogs or unregistered dogs as long as they don't use their registered dogs to do it.

Yes it was fun - too bad it was so bloody cold though. Thought you guys were heroes for coming out in it. Hope to see you again soon Julie

If all goes according to plan, she slides em out like a string of sausages - you already own a whelping box ,whelping materials and equipment , heater pads etc and you don't pay stud fees its going to cost you around $2000 to cover vets,chips, worming,registrations and incidentals per average litter. Thats also assuming you already have a breeders prefix and membership to the state CC's and you already have whatever licenses you need depending on where you live. Then you start adding in the extras according to the variables. Average costs C sections, around $600 travelling for the stud, up to 1000 Stud fees $1200 prog testing, $50 ultra sounds $100 advertising $50 stationary $100 for puppy packs ,phone bills $100 electricity for heater pads or airconditioners extra washing $100, testing $500, cleaning, sterilizing and disinfection $100. Milk re-placers, food and supplements for the bitch and litter $1000, coffee and cake for the puppy buyers ...................................

You need to ring and check because that ad doesn't say they will allow their dog to mate a limited registered dog or a dog with no papers. If they allow a main registered bitch who has never been in the show ring to mate with their boy they are not breaching the code of ethics. Lots of complaints come through which are malicious and their first responsibility is to protect their members so they have to give their members the benefit of the doubt at the first instance. They do expect you to do the investigating and they have to be able to give the person concerned a copy of the complaint received so they can defend themselves. Just because they are advertising it doesn't mean to say they are doing it - they may say they are running the ad to find those who are breeding pet dogs to try to educate them.I know unlikely but it's the sort of thing people who are mucking it up say. They may say they only allow main registered dogs to mate and nothing in that ad says they allow NON Papered or unregistered dogs to mate. They may say its a typo or that someone else placed the ad to make em look bad. The MDBA employs a private investigator to check out complaints but that is expensive and the state CC's expect you to do the dirty work - in part because so many complaints are not true and simply looking for a way of making life hard for someone they don't like. Think it through - if someone were accusing you wouldn't you feel you were entitled to see the actual complaint?