Steve

No - Pacers is a separate business entity. We cant automatically enter your details from the MDBA to Pacers - but membership to pacers is free anyway unless you want to take out a higher membership level. The MDBA is set up to raise the bar for people who breed, rescue, own or work with dogs. Pacers is set up to help people who own any domestic animal if they hit hard times or emergencies.

Guilty or not - joking or not. Its a bit hard to expect someone will be arrested and charged going by something supposedly said in a phone conversation to a vet nurse without further evidence isn't it? http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/flori...cxtype=rss_news A Florida man was arrested Friday and charged with having sex with his dog, a Great Dane named Christie Brinkley, the Miami Herald has reported. Armand M. Pacher, 64, of Aventura, was booked into a Miami-Dade jail on a charge of animal cruelty, the Herald reported. The charge is a third-degree felony punishable by up to five years in prison. Pacher's veterinarian in Gainesville, Fla., reported him to police, the Herald said. Another employee in the vet's office called Pacher, a retired insurance agent, to reschedule eye surgery for the 2 ½-year-old Great Dane. During that phone call Pacher talked about sex with the dog, according to an arrest warrant. Pacher's attorney says his client was making a joke, and should not have been charged.

Very interesting - Can you get me that original article - a link or similar ? Might just do some of those studies here. I would also like to point out that even if legislating no live animals in pet shops made any difference in the states the impact here would be much less from a puppy mill perspective as the states cant export their puppies around the world with out long lengthy costs and quarantine. We can whiz them out to any country and they can be in their new homes that day.

Same here SwaY - just this week I found information that a registered breeder is actually a puppy farm and advertising all sorts of x breeds on petlink - I supplied him the evidence, and he removed them. I've also reported this to Dogs NSW and the RSPCA - what I found was disgusting. The fact that Troy removed them is pretty spectacular because as members of dogs NSW they are perfectly entitled to do exactly that and not breach their code of conduct as long as its not with their registered purebred dogs. They are also able to do that and remain within all bounds for the RSPCA. If he has removed them while they still hold dogs NSW registration - Im impressed.

O.K. I see no evidence that this was a deliberate litter, I see no reason why she shouldn't advertise her pups at 6 weeks as long as they don't go home until 8. I see no reason why she should sell them off for less than she is able to get and I see no reason why someone has to decide to abort or cull if thats not something they are comfortable with. I see no reason to believe that she wont screen her buyers and ensure they know what they are getting and that they are well suited to them.I see no reason to believe she wont be there in the future for them if things go wrong. I get why you feel the way you do but using the dogz forum to make accusations and ruin someone's reputation especially before you ask her personally about the situation is something that's a clear and definite no go. Julie

Can the general public contact the MDBA or CCs to ask if the breeder they thinking of purchasing from has had any complaints against them in the past? Yes. So far we have had to remove 2 breeders, one rescue and one trainer.

Does she need any help?

How is the admin of this site to determine whether complaints are genuine or hold any substance? The MDBA investigates every complaint made against our members.This costs us lots of money and a whole heap of resources - how is Troy to cover this? The conditions for advertising here are that the breeder is registered with their canine council and they have a registered prefix.Its the job of the CCs and in our case the MDBA to look at complaints against our members and decide whether they are to be acted on or not. If the CC decides a breeder is guilty and removes their prefix then they are no longer eligible to advertise here. In other words the onus for deciding whether someone is guilty as accused or whether any action should be taken is up to the governing body not up to a website owner who isn't able to cover whats needed to sort it out. If Troy is able to see they no longer have a prefix he can remove them on the assumption they are either no longer breeding or they have been chucked out of the CCs but until then they fit the criteria for allowing them to advertise.

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/20...deaths/100181/1 DOT: Short-snouted dogs most likely to die on airline flights Comments 6 By Ben Mutzabaugh, USA TODAY "Bulldog and pug owners beware: Short-snouted breeds accounted for roughly half the purebred dog deaths on airplanes in the past five years, Transportation Department data released Friday shows." That's from a story just out this afternoon by The Associated Press, which says at least 122 dog deaths have been reported since the DOT required airlines to start making that information public beginning in May 2005. AP adds English bulldogs "account for the single highest number of deaths among the 108 purebreds on the list," representing 22 of the deaths on the list compiled by the DOT. Pugs (11 deaths), golden retrievers (7), labradors (7), French Bulldogs (6) and American Staffordshire terriers (4) followed English bulldogs on the list. DOT press release: "Short-faced" dogs more prone to death in flight, according to DOT data (PDF file) Dan Bandy, chairman of the Bulldog Club of America's health committee, tells AP short-snouted breeds face a particular risk in being transported in the cargo holds of airliners. "The way all dogs cool themselves is basically through respiration, either just panting or the action of breathing in or out, is a method of heat exchange for them," Bandy tells. "A dog that has a long snout or a long muzzle has more surface area within its nasal cavity for that heat exchange to take place. So breeds like labradors or collies or those types of dogs with the long muzzles have a more efficient cooling system." Adam Goldfarb, director of the Humane Society's pet risk program, expounds on that to The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. He says such short-snouted breeds have "problems breathing and with air flow. It's [flying] a stressful experience for a dog. They are in a crate, [in] a small enclosed area. There are new smells. Then the plane takes off and it's an unsettling experience. And [there is] the noise." As for recent examples, Bloomberg News writes "the one dog death reported to the [DOT] in May, the most recent month for which data are available, was a 6-year-old pug named Pixie, who died during a Continental Airlines flight from Houston to San Jose, Costa Rica. According to the report, the death was likely 'breed-related' and unrelated to Continental Airlines' handling of the dog." Some airlines go so far as to prevent short-snouted breeds from flying as cargo during hot periods of the year. The Journal-Constitution notes that Delta -- the USA's biggest carrier -- says on its website that it will not transport "snub- or pug-nosed dogs and cats" in temperatures that exceeds 75 degrees. Delta says all other breeds are barred at temperatures above 85F. The DOT report also covers missing and injured animals. The Journal-Constitution notes there "were 88 pets injured or lost between May 2005 and last May." "When it comes to traveling with your pets, consider... whether your pet wants to go with you and whether it's worth it," the Humane Society's Goldfarb tells the paper.

This isn't going to happen it breaches a whole pile of free trade laws which are federal in this country and will always win out over any other.Registered breeders breed less than 10% of puppies born each year in Australia and just because we think everyone should only own or breed registered animals whether we like it or not the majority of the population don't agree. If you cant sell them via newspapers and internet that wont stop anyone breeding them. There are too many animals dying in pounds and suffering at the hands of breeders who don't care about the welfare of the animal more than they care about how much money they can make. However, if we start making changes just because we focus on one issue without knowing the entire story the chances of actually making it worse rather than better is pretty high. I'm about to distribute an email to MDBA breeder, rescue, pet owner and professional members this morning giving them opportunity to tell us what they think about the RSPCA recommendations for regulating breeders as part of our preparation for attending a round table meeting in Canberra next month with interested parties regarding puppy farms - We [ MDBA] happen to think we have a solution - a simple one with few if any potential unintended consequences with no financial considerations for government which we will present for discussion to our members soon.However, before we do that we are calling for their feed back in case we have missed something they feel is important.

nods

But who knows where most of the breeding dogs in this country are? Take a look at one community I'm familiar with.Country township population around 500 - even if every household had an average of 1 dog - and they don't thats around 500 dogs. Stats say about 60 of them in this area will be registered with council even though they are liable to be chipped and registered at law. Then lets move out to just one road which is with 40 kilomteres of this town centre where there are two big puppy farms that I know of - I know for sure there is one with around 300 dogs and more on the other but Id be guessing at how many in the other has. I betchya none of them are chipped or registered. There are also several smaller dog farmers too and again doubtful any of them are registered or chipped. How does the government have any idea where the dogs in this community are or what anyone is doing with them until someone makes a complaint which alerts them to a problem ? So while I agree the government should know where most are I reckon there's not a chance based on our current systems.

Sounds good but its not that easy. There are not enough purebred breeders, there are not enough purebred breeders who breed enough purebred puppies. The minute yo start talking about how we should or should not be more open to people who want one of our dogs you overlook the fact that for many- most purebred breeders this is a life's mission a passion - looking after the breed is like a religion. Its part of the solution but it needs some heavy work first.

Opps was posting asyou replied. Please ignor. Sorry not sure if you wre talking to me. I have never thought that stopping pet shop sales will do anything to stop large puppy mills or dog brokers for that matter. I was opposed to the Clover bill. I do think that it would be better if people got thier pups from breeders. But stopping pet shop sales will not make that happen either. They can still buy pup in the penny saver, at markets or any of many other situations. I do think it might be good to look at some how stopping the suplly of overseas commercial markets for dogs. But I am not in favor of taking away the right to export and import dogs as a braod sweep, as now blood is vital to maintaining breeds here and in other countries. this was what I was asking about. I hear you.

Exactally what happend to me. I opened the Dog World to see the dog exported to South East Asia.I still beat myself up over it. Now don't get me wrong I have dogs that "I" exported to Asia "BUT I" knew where they were going. nods.

Yes his name is very well used in the Dogs NSW edition. No question that anyone looking could miss what is going on. So is the answer to shut down pet export? I would hate to see that as there many that are sending dogs to good homes over seas. I would also like to think that the ability to move dogs to different countries will aid in decreasing some disease and improve breeds over all. Is there a method that could some how qucikly block that bad and not the good exports? Nup no way - you cant shut down pet export - its silly for anyone to even think of taking up that option as its against our federal laws of free trade.It will be defeated and squashed before it gets past go.

So how will stopping puppies sold in Australian pet shops solve this - If the object in all of this is stopping puppies being bred in appalling conditions en mass ? If the object is to stop people buying dogs cant live with and then dump them then we need some real data to back that up. In NSW puppies sold in pet shops have had to be chipped for over 10 years and yet the majority of dogs coming into shelters are not chipped. You cant just say pet shops are the problem without something concrete to back that up.

double post

Registered breeders in Australia sell registered puppies to overseas pet shops with registration papers - these are export certificates provided by the Canine Councils which allow people in other countries to register the dogs on overseas registries.they can be used for showing or breeding registered pups in that country. An example of this type of transaction is Dan McDougall in Hawaii and the mainland US. Transpet is the sole agent for him in Australia and last time I looked a couple of hundred per month are shipped out this way.this makes lots of money for breeders- because puppies are purchased for around the same price they would get if they sold them individually here.It makes lots of money for the consulting vet who gets paid lots of money to check them out the day they come in and clears them for export,it makes lots of money for Transpet who take a commission as an agent and also pick up profit for the flights out. It makes lots of money for the Canine Councils who pick up around 100 per pup for the export certificate and it makes lots of money for the pet shop in Hawaii who sells the pup within a few days fo them arriving there. This has lots to do with the fact that Australia has no quarantine issues as we have no rabies. A pup can go from here to anywhere in the world without having to be held anywhere and they can be in their new homes the day they arrive. Then you have agents who do the same job as transpet but they dont deal in pups that will have registered export certificates - though they still may have a registered pedigree - people who want them as pets have no desire to have the papers transfered on the receiving country's data base and some registries just accept them and enter them without the registered export certificate. Last time I looked the figures for this type of export was over 10,000 and Id say there are lots more than that now. They go out via Sydney, Melbourne and Perth. One agent in Perth pays flights from any state and as much money as we can get for a purebred pup and they don't want any papers. Another agent from NSW travels around and picks them up in the back of his car and pays cash - flies them out to Hong Kong and other Asian countries straight into pet shops. Its estimated 20,000 or more unpapered purebred kittens especially blue British shorthaired and other types of purebred cats fly into Hong Kong to pet shops each year from this country too.

When someone has had to invest a squillion dollars to make sure they comply with the crazy regulations for breeding establishments and they own anything up to 1000 dogs they cant afford to only breed for customer enquiries. They have to pump em out , hold their breath they dont get a virus or freeze to death and get as many bulk sales as possible. Logistically its not possible for someone to give each puppy buyer a one on one and be there for follow up. Its definitely not going to be a good thing for their pockets to offer a service which takes the dog back if they are not happy or if something goes wrong. Feeding 1000 dogs a week would mean they have to pump out and sell off quickly before the pups start eating more profits or needing more people to pick up poo etc on a continual level not just to fill customer inquiries.

About 17 years ago I was contacted by someone who was and still is active in the dog show world. Different breed to mine but I checked him out pretty well. he told me he needed the two bitches for his grandaughters as the breed he had wasn't suitable as they were a working breed. He did a real number on me - remember this was before limited register. I drove to Sydney to what he said was his daughter's house where he was with his wife and the grandaughters and said everything I wanted to hear. Yard looked great and everyone was ready to accept the puppies.I walked away thinking all was well. He rang me and we had several chats about how beautiful the girls were and how happy they had made the family and I felt all warm and snuggly that my pups had gone to such a great home. Couple of months later they turn up in the CC journal listed as being exported overseas to a known puppy farm in Japan. This was in fact the beginning of the case which led to the CC having to lift restrictions on their members for sales in pet shops. I complained - loud and clear and so did several other breeders who got sucked in by him. He resigned from the CC and his wife took over the prefix - he remained a dealer. My point is that someone who wants to scam you can be very convincing and its very difficult to pick it as they know what to say and how to suck you in. Even though I can beat my chest and say they would never get me again there is always that element of doubt because this guy was very good at what he did and to the best of my knowledge still does. looking back on it there were probably clues but I didn't pick them as I knew he was well known in his breed but the minute I get that "feeling" that slight niggle - that doubt all ideas of getting one of mine is out the window. I love to talk to potential puppy buyers - I chat and waffle on and listen.They dont know Im interviewing them and I don't ask a set of questions because the real bad guys know what to say to answer these questions anyway. Dont for one minute think that doing home checks etc is going to help with someone who is highly motivated to getting past you. Listen get them chatting about their lives and if you get any "oh oh" feeling STOP even if you cant say what caused the feeling.

Most of them who are breeding lots in rotten conditions don't sell to the public and they don't sell to a pet shop or at least they don't sell most of what they breed to pet shops. Tens of thousands of 8 week old puppies are purchased by agents and sent out via Sydney and Perth to Asian pet shops and no one ever knows who bred them or where they came from - same with kittens. What bothers me the most about calls for the cessation of sales in pet shops, mandatory codes for puppy farmers, restricting ways for breeders to advertise or sell puppies is that they are all based on assumptions. Yet the very people they are aiming at are people who are known to break laws and highly likely to get worse rather than simply give up. there is no credible data which says animals sold in pet shops are more likely to be dumped - in fact if anything they prove they are not. We see Mandatory codes call for conditions in breeding establishments which are not conducive to animals living a better quality of life and not one little bit of the one thats circulating now which the RSPCA are pushing in any way attempts to restrict the number of puppies which can be bred on any farm - not that they could anyway. So if you cant restrict how many someone can breed and the bastards who treat their breeding animals cruelly are not likely to adhere to any new laws re licencing etc how is it going to help any dog and prevent any animal from suffering to take away one of the few places a puppy farmer sells their puppies in bulk which can be regulated and which is visible? There needs to be better data and decisions made on seeing the whole big picture rather than some knee jerk mass propoganda pushed by people who MEAN well but who don't have the rest of the information needed to find a solution which will help. We cant just go after methods others have tried and which have failed We need to find something new based on knowledge and acceptance of the facts not what some group is telling us what to think. I believe there is a way - its different - but it would stop much of what is going on for dogs almost overnight and it doesn't include stopping sales of animals in pet shops - though I believe that this would be the long term result.

I also remember news reports telling us of a group responsible for deliberately introducing them however. http://www.dpiw.tas.gov.au/inter.nsf/Attac...oxIRsummary.pdf Authorities have gathered sufficient evidence beyond reasonable doubt over the past decade to categorically confirm the presence of low numbers of red foxes in the State (Fox Eradication Program 2005). Popular belief suggests the presence of these foxes has most likely arisen from the wilful, illegal introduction of sets of fox cubs by one or more people in the late 1990’s, and is a situation exacerbated by the coincidental decline of the Tasmanian Devil population across much of the State due to the spread of a fatal facial tumour disease. Tasmanian Devil’s are believed to have provided an important predatory and/or competitive buffer against the establishment of foxes in the past. As the fox is far from being fully established in Tasmania, every effort is being made by the Government to specifically target and eradicate the small number of vermin known to be present in selected areas of the State.

Caesars mum has done a great job for us and purchased the bed - a Futon with a washable cover - Thank you - That made it much easier for us. Job well done. Julie

Yep