Steve

Has not happened for several years because main importer stopped doing it Curious about Victorian purebred breeder allegedly exporting big numbers...............the number of export permits granted monthly by Dogs Victoria is quite small, often less than 10 a month.............of course these alleged purebred exports may not be ANKC registered dogs at all ................... They are simply leaving with or without a registered pedigree and not an export certificate. Only those registries in countries who have cut deals and are part of the FCI care about export certificates handed out via the ANKC and someone wanting a pet isnt interested anyway in whether the dog has been transferred to them on the Australian registry. AQIS dont require an ANKC export certificate issued by the ANKC to move a dog.If you think Vicdog breeders are only breeding ANKC registered dogs thats not true either. Many are Vicdogs members and dont own a registered dog and have never registered a litter - prime example is one very high profile commercial breeder who has been a Vicdogs members for over a decade and produces a constant supply of pet puppies purebred but not registered] and has never once registered a litter.

O.K. I take it back - would appear there is actually some Aussie purebred breeders who are exporting to pet shops in Singapore and their establishments are not in real good shape. One in particular is located in Victoria - puppy farmer heaven - sending approx 20 to 30 per month.

Often those who start it all up have skills in areas other than fundraising and even if they are prepared to have a good go its huge and there are so many other things which press on time and resources. Traditionally there has been this thought process with small rescue which implies the more poor you are the better you rescue and few have considered how they could pay someone for roles which have been considered voluntary in regard to fundraising and or sponsorship. Problem is with volunteers they usually have other employment or life commitments and whilst they want to help its on a relatively limited basis, or at least it is over a period of time. Other things have to take priority for them and so without them meaning it its a hard ask to keep people working long hours over time with reliability and often a job which someone being paid to do will take a day or two stretches into months when you are relying on free services. Imagine if you put someone with their own ABN which equals no wages, no super, no workers comp for the rescue group and paid them based on their performance - For example make 10,000 for the group in fundraising/donations, sales, sponsorship,advertising and get 40% = rescue group gets $6000 person working gets $4000. $6000 of 10,000 is better than 0 out of zero. Brings in more income for the group and actually employs someone who gets more money if they work harder and it doesnt have to be a desperate emotional grab at the last minute. There are numerous ways this could be structured and fitted to variables but even better there are people who really want to help but cant help in the usual way by hands on with the dogs who are looking for part time or full time employment who would be excellent with this.

Well here goes. Even if you expect to stay small and for what you do to only ever be a hobby type activity if you put certain things in place before you begin you can eliminate much of the traditional problems and issues most face and avoid what stops most people who start out with passion blowing up - burnout. To put it bluntly you need a business plan even if when you start you think you are the only one ever likely to see it. Sounds daunting but if you start at the top and work through it falls into place and it helps you to see what will and wont suit you and what will and wont work. As far as costs and funding is concerned in my opinion you need to work out what the start up costs will be for you -each person or group is different because some already have some resources and freedoms that others don't - start with must haves and end with things you can live without but would rather not. Then sort out how you will make enough money to make it viable .Each of us can only run on passion for a period of time - some longer than others but none of us can continue to put our own money in and carry the financial burden and all of the rest that goes into this without sooner or later working out that we need our own money for other things - like food. Wages realistic wages should be one of your longer term goals and there are literally thousands of ways of generating tens of thousands of dollars per year if you think outside the box. Personally Id like to see it all prepared on paper and start up costs itemised with marketing plans and expected income and how it will be sustainable before one dog is in the mix. Then I and I'm sure many others would help to raise funds for start up costs and help you get the money in the bank to open your doors and really make a long term difference without you needing to break your own bank.

Well my dogs come in when I want them in not when they want in and they go out when I want them out or when they want out. They know crying at the door wont get them what they want from the time they arrive so they don't do it and they are all happy well mannered and well adjusted dogs. There are a lot less dangers for them outside than inside un attended because Ive designed their environment to keep them safe and happy. over stimulated? What IS that?

Good grief - as long as they have shade and water and a safe environment of course a dog can be outside all day.

Mine have free range of 2 and a half acres. Maremma look after the beagles and keep out any visitors.

Yep Id already spotted that and I have another bit of an issue as well which I wont make public - but I still say they are having a go and the more we say why we dont like them the more free publicity they get.

Cant you put them somewhere where they can come and go> Puppies are born with a natural instinct to keep their nest clean and avoid walking in poop.If you keep them locked up you over ride that instinct and they become much harder to house train and live with when they go home and who needs the mess and work in their home ? What happens when they go to their new homes / this isn't getting them ready for what comes next in my opinion and labs easily cope with hot weather if they have shade. Sorry mate the idea of having a litter of six week old pups of this size locked up inside my home is not for me.

The concept of anyone regardless of their credentials or experience or desires being able to make a group work which is dealing with any aspect of uniting or representing rescue or breeding is heavily stacked against them succeeding as there are so many personalities and issues which will never blend. Its common for feelings of some not joining because they don't like someone who is involved or because they believe someone is not suited to be on the board or they believe the philosophies chosen are at odds with their own. Then of course its the massive time and financial investment they would have to weather to keep it going to a point where it was viable and its no task for the light hearted. They are having a go - and in my opinion - good for them.

Sorry I think 6 weeks is way too old for puppies to be trapped inside and not able to get out into the yard to go to the toot . How hot is too hot ? At 6 weeks they can regulate their own temps and puppies cope well here in up to 45 degree temps at that age.

If we are talking about NARGA I say good on them for having a go. You dont have to agree with their philosophies or join them or use their services but why smack them over the head for dipping their toe in? Just because Pet rescue exists doesnt mean to say they should be entitled to a monopoly on services for rescue and rescue dogs. From what I can see its not the same as what Pet Rescue do in much anyway. Oscars Law is a different topic in my opinion.

I dont write my ads to suit people who have no interest in anything more than looking at ads and judging whether the ad says its a good breeder or a bad breeder based on their perceptions or what has become some social revolution to control absolutely everything associated with dog ownership. I let people know I have puppies available and take it from there when they make their enquiry. This not only gives me a chance to educate people on the breed but I talk more out of getting one of my breed from me or anyone than I accept for homes for my puppies. If you do this long enough you learn it makes no difference to how or where you advertise which affects the end result. If you think for one minute that idiots don't come from ads on dogz as much as they come from anywhere else you're dreaming.

So what is it we are judging her on? The amount of dogs she has? The amount of dogs she has bred? The fact that she bred a dog of a breed which is known to have HD as a potential problem which was diagnosed with this disease two years down the track when the disease is impossible to avoid no matter how hard the breeder tries and it is only about 19% attributed to genetics? She didn't breed a dog which developed Parvo after it went home did she or did I miss something? Making a breeder responsible for HD after two years - bit harsh. The link Sandgrubber posted re no one being able to go onto the property past a certain point?

Geez - dont know what to say about that ,

Any two adults can enter into a contract and if you hand the money over knowing what that means if you pull out its not illegal for the breeder to keep your money as long as the rules weren't changed after you paid it and made your agreement. As I said I dont do it - Ive been around long enough to know what may go wrong and its too much stress for me but its difficult to see how everyone seems to want it both ways too. If we are to be perceived as bad breeders if we dont have buyers lined up for our pups and bad breeders if we get to a point where we need to advertise on free websites rather than just dogz then surely it is understandable if a breeder wants a guarantee that all pups are spoken for before they do the mating and take deposits to be sure isn't it?

Yep minimum 12 weeks - Hardly likely to import a puppy to a pet shop after its 12 weeks old - sounds like crap to me.

Yes I can see what you said now I didnt before I posted - thanks

Many of those dogs going to Singapore would be via registered breeders being placed with families or show homes and those moving there. Ive never sold one to Singapore but we have about half a dozen who have come in from Singapore as smart Dog Owner club members over the last 6 months as puppy buyers from our Aussie members - without exception all of their dogs are desexed. We have gotten to know them and they send us news and updates and They are every bit as into loving their dogs and treating them like children as any Aussie. Fact is it may be a problem - it wouldn't be the first time an overseas pet shop exported Aussie puppies en Masse' [McDougall Hawaii] but Id want independent info rather than believe anything OL is involved in.

So if they are sending puppies that dont sell to puppy farms to make more puppies why do they need to buy ours? Surely by now they would have their own supply?

Where are the export stats to back this up? Last time we looked at this only a couple of thousand dogs were exported per annum to all countries and that includes people who take them overseas to their new homes and Singapore dont let them in at 8 weeks anyway do they? Ive a friend who is sending a pup to Singapore this week and it wasn't able to travel until it had two vaccinations and was over 12 weeks. Seriously who is going to pay at least a couple of thousand dollars Aus to get a puppy over there - just the flight is over a thousand dollars and then treat it as if its worthless? Not very good business managers that's for sure.

Everyone has to be taken on a case by case basis - not everyone has the same resources and not everyone breeds for the same goals.Not everyone has websites and want everyone on their doorstep unless they actually have puppies. I used to keep a waiting list until we worked out sometimes I had over 100 names on it most of which are no longer still wanting one of our puppies when we finally have a litter and breeding isn't just about placing an order for X males and Z females etc either. So I have a litter of a dozen and I may have one or two now and then I have to advertise to let people know I have them and as I breed working dogs most peopel shopping for working dogs dont know about dogzonline. Its a bit silly to assume that someone who advertises on dogz is automatically a good breeder and someone who advertises anywhere else isnt. Ive met a breeder recently who takes deposits on puppies up to 18 months before they are born so she knows when she goes back to the list they are genuine or they loose their money - thats way too scary for me and I might consider a deposit or two when I have a definite pregnancy but taking people's money in the hope that everything goes as you expect is out of my comfort zone. I don't care how someone finds me they are all treated the same and no matter what time of year it is no puppy goes home to just anyone. From a personal point of view I love puppies and so do my kids and I like to take some time to bond and get to love a new baby so Christmas time is the time I would prefer to buy a puppy and bring it in when the kids are on school holidays and being up front about a pup being ready at Christmas time would turn as many away as it would attract them - because taking a new pup at christmas time will suit some and not others - some will be at home for Christmas other wont - whilst I've heard about the people who buy puppies for presents and then dont want them after Christmas that hasn't been my experience. The other big deal is that spring time and early summer is breeding time and there are more dogs pregnant and more puppies bred at that time of year anyway. On another note - I have met registered breeders who have a litter of puppies and because of assumptions about where a "good breeder" should advertise and how a good breeder should have people lined up for puppies etc and only advertise on dogz are too afraid to do what they need to do to let people know they have a few puppies for sale.I watched as one breeder sold her puppies to a dealer to go to a pet shop where no one would ever know she had bred them and I was told that was pretty common. Ive spoken with registered breeders who have their puppies put to sleep rather than be seen to be a bad breeder and advertising. A good breeder is many things but one of them is that it is someone who cares about where their animals go and tries their hardest to get it right and if they are involved in the vetting of the buyer, educating them, and being responsible for finding new homes for them rather than killing them, or selling them to pet shops or agents, or dumping them on rescue or a pound,or selling them to anyone who asks I reckon where and how they advertise is not really counted.

Talk about restriction of trade! How will they police it anyway?

For a very long time puppies went home at 6 weeks.Then vaccines became available and they needed to give them at 6 weeks and took 10 to 14 days to work so the kennel councils bought this into their code of ethics.New vaccines dont need that long between them going in and home time and only need about 2 to 3 days. Puppies need to be socialised with their Mum and their litter up to 6 weeks after that they need to be socialised with humans and be exposed to things that they will be faced with in their new homes. Because its now become the norm and we as breeders are not able to allow puppies to go home at 6 weeks - in some states its illegal then the onus is on the breeder to do what many argue is better done at 6 weeks by the new owner. In my breed - Maremma I truly do believe they would be better off going home at 6 weeks than 8 and I work very hard ensuring the pups are prepared for what type of home they will go to. At 6 weeks some get to sit on my knee and get loads of human one on one and cuddles some get life with chickens and others get life with sheep with less human time. I believe its better for them to be meeting the actual animals they will continue to live with ,not just the species and the humans who will be part of and in their lives. Many Breeders of this breed who either don't know the law or who don't care place their puppies at 6 weeks because they think it best for them,I cant due to codes and laws but I do think it would be better for the pups and their new families. All any of us can do is consider what we want to have as our end result and take steps to ensure the pup is exposed to such things and make the effort to do what needs to be done. For example if you want your dog to accept and allow all visitors in then you have to ensure you expose it to people coming and going as a very regular enjoyable experience etc But don't get too bent out of shape over this - judge what is needed for your dog in your environment according to your lifestyle Living in a rural situation doesn't always fit with what has become the norm for those who live in suburbia. Just do what you normally do and want your dog to share with you as often as you can.

Ive tried this on both beagles and Maremma and I dont believe it helps and if anything has adverse affects. Bitches do a great job of early neurological stimulation of puppies without creating any stress for them and its difficult to see why humans want to intervene in that when babies of all other species are handled with softness and gentleness avoiding at all costs any form of stress on the infant. Exposure to different things as they get to around 6 weeks to home time is crucial however in my opinion where they need to able to explore and play and experience as many different things as possible in the socialisation and exposure process. Having said that there is a different socialisation process used here for Maremma puppies from 5 weeks depending on where they are going to live and what they are going to be expected to do and be exposed to in their new homes.