angelsun

I've only had two come out at the same time, and like so many others, one was alive, one was dead. I admit, I was a bit gobsmacked when it happened and grabbed one pup that was struggling to break the sack. I wonder had I got the other, would it have lived? never will know, but based on what others are saying, it seems unlikely.

(double post)

There is nothing wrong with asking the price for a pup. There is nothing wrong with asking for an estimate on shipping, simply because a breeder that routinely ships interstate would have an idea, the average new pet owner, won't. What I would bristle a bit at would be the 'knock off some money' because one less vaccination will be given. Depending on the day, lack of sleep, other emails and life in general, I might go off a bit half cocked in response. Some breeders are in fact more testy than others. Some breeders are used to getting everything their way without debate. In the end, YOU are the consumer...you pay the price if you want the product.... If the breeder hasn't said, 'here's your deposit back...seeya' then perhaps you also need to accept that if you want to stop the deal, the ball is in your court. Losing a pet over a vaccination for example, is pretty silly....but that's just my opinion.

Coming from North America, I"m used to it and miss the chance at getting a minor group placement. It's All Or Nothing here with the current system, and it's easy for someone to claim they 'were run for group' but at the end of the day, if you don't do Runner Up, you're just part of the mob that walks out of the ring. Class in groups are nice, but I wouldn't be crushed if they were dropped in favour of a four placement group awarding system. It's possible to still do class in groups, a bit harder for the stewards to sort out quickly, but it can be done....not much different than we do now...you get beaten directly or indirectly at the main group level, you're done....if not....do your class. I woudln't have to be hard.

The other thing to keep in mind when wishing to compare different species and how inbreeding has affected them, is to know how many pairs of chromosomes there are to work with. Not all animals have the same number and as such, the 'inbred' factor is very different in some than others based on this fact.

What also needs to be said is simply this: Regardless of common ancestry..if dogs being mated together have similar faults (genetic or structural) the odds of producing the same or greater (as you are doubling up if both parents have it) when you breed, whether you use common ancestry or not. If you breed a male with a dodgy hip to a female with a dodgy hip and they are not related at all...(going back further than 6-8 generations) or even different breeds...the chances of you getting offspring with dodgy hips are pretty high. I see all these mixed breeds in my line of work, and a huge majority have slipping patellas (considered genetic) or malformed front legs, or heart issues or much more. Unrelated dogs mated together...but these dogs weren't tested and deemed genetically or physically healthy....and people are surprised when problems happen because they believe that outcrossing or hybid vigor will take over and produce a great result. Puppy farms are good at promoting this falsehood, as well as some breeders that can not understand more than outcrossing when it comes to a breeding program and they also wonder why they have no consistancy in their litters. The realtity is quite simply that all breeds now deemed purebred, were created by hard decisions, tight inbreeding and linebreeding (later in the pedigree) to create a dog that always looked the same. Unlike our popular 'oodles' where we see six in a litter and not one has the same characturistics to the next one. Anytime we double up on a trait, (linebreeding or inbreeding) that is, put a dog and bitch that have the same look in some area (say for example coat colour and type) we increase our odds of producing that same look. Taking a fluffy silky coat and putting it to a hard straight coat and wanting the latter, won't produce that....sometimes a few of each, and maybe something in the middle. It's not til we double up on the desired traits that we achieve...but with that, comes the down side...double up on something that we don't want, or won't accept is a fault or a problem (such as a major orthopedic issue as mentioned in the OP) because either the 'breeder' has nothing else to work with or refuses to admit that it's an issue and is more interested in creating a litter and making some money.

yes, she's much more comfortable as you can see.

7 live pups born April 8. 4 girls, 3 boys. Mom and pups doing just fine.

There are valid points for putting dogs out in loving homes on contracts. Not all are bad situations or with dodgy owners. I kept about four or five dogs in my home, and yet owned or co owned as many or more, living elsewhere. These arrangements were done with honesty and fairness for BOTH sides, unlike many breeders who demand a lot of their outside homes and ask the care givers to give up a lot for the sake of a litter. Very one sided and makes a very bad name for breeders because naturally we only hear the horror stories, not the many many successes that happen out there. Housing dogs is always an arguement. Many simply feel that any sort of segregation be it crates inside or kennel runs outside is not acceptable. I believe it depends on the breed firstly. There are plenty of dogs that handle being outside in large yards and in groups quite well without mental breakdown from either dog or human. I feel that just because some unknown face makes a rule and states a set size of acceptable housing, doesn't mean they are right. Many don't own dogs, never have and never will. In the same vein, just because the rule is there, doesn't mean people follow it either. (on the positive or the negative side) because we know that many farming dogs are tucked away and hidden, doing business and providing the pet stores with stock. I was taught many years ago, that you don't HAVE to have a houseful of dogs to be successful with a breeding program. Primarily because we need to sit back and really think about what that word means to us. What level of success do you want? How can you get it? Why do you want it? (that's the key one with me) If you boil things down and are willing to rehome retired breeding dogs, you can find a happy number that can be housed comfortably for all concerned. (and abide by the ever growing council restrictions) Often we believe that more is better. In breeding, I don't think that's correct. Sure, we may not progress as quickly as someone with twice the dogs...but it isn't a race, it's a goal. (read tortoise and the hare) If we always keep focused on the goal, and not how long it might take, we will find that the need for tens and tens of dogs becomes unneeded. We see things clearer and do not breed because we 'want to give this pair a go'. We have limited resources and tend to take more time and thought before committing to the mating. In many cases, the results are far better. I have two bitches and a dog. The two girls have different lines, the dog is my breeding with some common threads between the girls. I have two males frozen. If I can't use my head, breed with thought for the future, then I shouldn't be breeding. It's not a race to get to the end first....in fact I don't know if I EVER will get to the end....but I will enjoy the journey, keeping peace in the home and handling my dogs with care.

for future when really stuck. Tubing from a store that sells aquarium supplies (used for air pumps) A soft plastic bag for collection. Any sort of lubricant from the chemist. Ideally a syringe that fits the tubing but in truth, blowing on the end, works just fine for those that aren't too precious about that sort of thing. Seriously...basic stuff...I have managed many litters for people in the past using this sort of thing. :)

The arguement I use is simply this: No dog is guaranteed to be free of any and all genetic issues that may shorten or cause lack of quality of life. However, with a pedigree dog, you have a great chance of this due to generations of testing and selective breeding with known ancestry. Hybrid vigor is put forward as a sale tactic. The claim that the 'oodle'/'spaniel' has no health issues, but when questioned as to if they tested said oodle or spaniel and if they know that the aformentioned dogs had any issues in their family tree, we find a changed subject or an abuse mutt breeder. I know many mutts that lived long happy and vet free lives..but I also know many purebreds that are the same.

I am thinking that M will be glad when it's over with.....She's on day 59 today and at the moment, not interested in her dinner...(much)

Alright Already

Many vets are still in the dark ages when it comes to breeding hernia affected bitches. (old school teaching unfortunately) Many vets want to err on the side of caution..if they claim it's "Ok" and something does go wrong..they don't want to have any fingers pointed at them with accusations of 'you said it was fine...so I did..now look what happened!' As for 'strain'....that's a new one...never heard of such a thing...it's not got anything to do with anything..if so, you would never have a bitch with a C section whelp again....stretch, push, contractions..strain,.....if it DID affect the bitch...one has to seriously wonder how the vet stitched/repaired in the first place to provide such a weakness. These are easily sorted out, but organs slipping into the pouch are just as easily fixed as a fat blob without future complications. Only when left unattended, can a restriction occur (and possible organ/tissue damage) Even in a young pup, the difference between a fat blob and a severe hernia is easily seen, even by many that don't know much difference between them...trust me, it's VERY easy to feel the difference.

For me, progesterone..never trusted cytology to be accurate and in fact, many of my past vets have said that they also use it ONLY as a tool to back up the progesterone because of how the cells show. Usually when you get the cell shape you want, it's too late (for frozen or chilled AI)

It's not a big deal. Lump of fat that didn't go in when the umbilica ring closed. Highly over reacted situation by most breeders who still think that it's genetically inherited and will cause problems. (although no one has EVER been able to tell me what horrible problems will arise from either leaving a hernia in the breeding program or having pups born with them and the quality of life down the track) With longer coats, they go unnoticed...they are easily stitched up at any point in time. The majority of hernia are caused by excessive pulling on the cord at birth, inappropriate handling of the puppies during the important ring closure time, or accident such as pup caught up and stretched out. I've had them over the many years...never found them to be inherited, nor detrimental to any pups health. I've never removed any pup from my breeding program for having one.

Lakelands are leggier....finer boned overall. Welsh should be like bricks...rectangular in body, rectangular in head style. They are groomed differently as well with the welsh not having the 'fall' of hair over the eyes like the lakelands do. Welsh are black/tan (red) and some are very pale or grizzled, but the basic pattern is the same as Airedale who also are only in that colour. We see white splash on the chest from time to time on them.

German Pinscher: Don't look them in the eye...(this actually started with the judges education program in the USA) I had a Standard Poodle on the table yesterday...."That can't be a poodle, they don't come in that colour". The registered Maltese I groom: No, it's too small to be a Malt...I know..I have them (malt/shiht blend) The chihuahua I groom: No really, he's a teacup...the breeder told me. (he's the correct size for the breed.....) Any dog: I can't feed them Roo...we don't want them to start chasing the Roos out in the paddock. on and on and on.....

Yup, she's pregnant.....(day 48)

It's a politically correct statement for most breeders to make, to say that they 'don't make money' or 'never profit' from the litters they breed. I'm talking GOOD and ethical breeders that do health testing and show dogs to titles etc.....but it's not quite true in some cases and for some reason, if we DO admit to being in the black, we are targetted as a bad breeder, a puppy mill or worse. It is possible to profit from breeding, and still be up front, ethical and honest. It's possible to cover your costs of breeding a litter and come out front. What many breeders add in, and it makes it look the 'long suffering' sort of thing, is the costs PRIOR to breeding...buying the dog in the first place. Raising that dog and costing in vet bills for shots or check ups, food bills and other items.....showing for example...these are costs that many breeders claim they are trying to cover with their prices. If this was the case the current litter of pups that I hope to see arrive early April will be, if there is an average of 8 and they all live, have to be sold for no less than $4000 each. Well we know this is stupid and won't happen! I won't cover the costs of the bitch in whelp up to this stage..she was imported (flight/quarantine costs) Was frozen inseminated twice without a litter (cost of surgery, stud fee, transport of semen etc) Shown to her championship and on and on.... I don't whinge about it...because it's my choice what I do with her...not hers....I breed to bring forward another generation of my breed. The rest of the litter is a bonus for those that wish a pet to love. Why charge what I do? Well I"m substantially cheaper than most in my breed in the USA.....and lower than many here in Australia, because the price I put on pups isn't about dollars and cents...it's about attempting to ensure the quality of life for my puppy. Saying that, I've given away (yes, that means for free) plenty of dogs in the past. No strings...some people just need a pet worse than I need another dog. My last litter in Canada....out of 7 pups...I sold two....starting other breeders off with good dogs, handing a dog to a friend to keep and show with the thought that maybe I'd use it later in the program....oh wait....three of those fell into that pile. Free to a good home isn't a death sentance or a reason for someone to pitch a dog out at the first chance...for the people that do that sort of thing, they will do it whether they get the dog for nothing or pay a hefty price...it's their nature. My cost helps weed out a few that want to buy a 'neat looking' dog for the kids on an impulse....as mentioned, most folks don't keep $1500 kicking around at any point in time. Yes, it works. Do I make profit on litters...sometimes....if I"m really lucky I'll clear a bit, and usually that means the dogs get something to make lives easier...new fencing, new beds, new crates etc. I do try to take a hundred bucks out and buy myself a treat....a pair of shoes, a new pair of earrings etc....I don't feel guilty about that nor have I tried to hide it from others inspite of how we breeders can be trashed if we actually 'make money'. A good business person, will potentially profit from breeding, but then we have mother nature that kicks in and all hell breaks loose...remember all those litters that failed? We might come ahead with one litter....but if we don't breed every year....and we have some disasters which any of us that have been in this game long enough, usually have.....we realize that a profit, isn't something we take lightly.....because so many losses occur in this game when you try to do it right. I'll take my profit on a litter thanks...and be grateful...because it might not come again for a while. I charge what I charge and if it's too much, well....there is always another pup out there in your budget range and I won't take it personally. Many have said that the purchase price of the dog is the least you'll have to pay over the long haul..perhaps....but NO ONE can force anyone to pay anything for a pup if they don't want to.....you see a price we ask...is only as good as the person willing to pay it.

I lost a sampoyed bitch (with 8 pups in her belly) with similar symptoms. Vomitting blood. Withing a day of her doing it, she was dead. The body was taken to the vet university where they told us that even just the four hours (she died in the wee hours of the morning at the foot of the bed and it was unknown at that time) the blood results would be not useful to determine cause of death. Toxins were discussed and eliminated. We still don't know what the cause was. I know Lynette Blue....she has many dogs that she co owns and manages well, and is no nut case.

Is there a 'like' button on here? :)

I'm hoping there might be a bit of insight as to a safe pain medication for a pregnant bitch that won't harm the pups. Bitch is not quite a month into gestation and had a bad fetch up with a car door. (long story, but suffice to say, it's a bit chilly around here at the moment as a result of this accident) 13 staples later, antibiotics but vet is reluctant to give any pain management. She's pretty sore, although resting nicely as she's a mature girl that's not prone to silliness.

I'd like to see the breakdown of the gene on that, because I know that a pair of LC was mated and out of the litter of 6, 2 were short stock coats. (this was a number of years ago back in Canada)

I'm not totally sure but I think the powers that be at the time didn't really understand the genetics of coat and how it carries. We have a bitch we know to carry the long coat gene....her daughter MAY carry it, but has yet to produce a long coat so it is possible she does not,even though some of her littermates were long coat. Unless both short coats carry, there won't be longs. Breeding longs can produce short coats. There are no guarantees that the entire litter will be long because of how the gene is. Longs and shorts have been mated together for many years without issues and have produced some stunners. (both long and short coats) A GSD is a GSD....history writes there is no wrong colour for a GSD.....there (in my opinion) is no wrong coat style...as such...a GSD bred to a GSD is a no brainer...coat becomes second....at the appropriate age when sure of the coat....register it appropriately, or simply show it in the correct class in a show. (much like we do with Manchester Terriers in North America.....toys are 12 pounds and under....but they are registered as Manchesters and yes..if they go over weight...they move from the toy ring to the terrier ring..no drama...it's one breed.....