Greytmate

This group sounds incredibly unprofessional, sad as they also seem very enthusiastic. There is a law on BCC's books about vaccination. So the council may be very interested in this if its brought to their attention in writing.

Can you tell where I can access these studies, please? Not quite. In my last job I was mentored by a well-qualified veterinary behaviourist, who just summarised a lot of learning she had done as relevant to the issue I was dealing with. I found it all logical and thought about it in context with what is fairly widely known about the disadvantages of human institutionalisation or of withholding care from human babies. It did raise the question of breeding with me, and by that I don't mean just separate breeds (our artificially constructed definition of them), I mean identifiable genetic lines found within breeds. Do we artificially select dogs that cope well with 'institutionalisation' or 'neglect', thus altering their evolution? To what extent? Here on DOL we are pretty cluey about what we think that good socialisation (or neutralisation) and puppy raising is, and my guess is that these studies were testing out the types of ideas that are generally accepted here on DOL. Because it is the common assumptions and theories that are most likely to raise interesting questions with the researchers. If you can get access to scientific journals, you could do a search and try to find some of that work. Sorry I can't point you in a better direction than that.

Just makes the dog sound more unreliable and not suited. Most dog attacks happen in the home of the dog and to those it knows. But its a Golden Reriever! They dont attack. Must be some other obscure reason this cant be what it seems at all Yes... Have you ever read the Legend of Gelert? We could investigate the dog's behaviour. But more importantly I think there should be some thorough detective work investigating what the humans were doing first.

Not about breed specific manufactured food, but I have read a lengthy article on how dog use nutrition and more specifically, exactly how to feed a greyhound differently for growing, spelling or racing, and why. This article did explain it properly, it was a scientific article, not a marketing one. But sadly, I can't seem to find it now. I don't know about different breeds, but different dogs need different nutrition depending on whether their muscles are short or long twitch fibre, and what performance you require. It is a bit of a joke to give pet dogs breed specific food, as being a pet doesn't call for a high or measured performance. Most dogs I know of any breed are overnourished on normal dog food, except maybe the ones that eat out of the rubbish bin.

The questions that Perthgirl was asking would never get a reply like that, because she didn't ask for that information and didn't offer any information that would allow a breeder to have any idea of what she is looking for. Seriously this whole topic is about miscommunication, and Perthgirl has to realise that if you ask a question that requires a long and complicated reply, you lessen the chance of getting any reply at all. We are people first, and then dog owners , buyers or sellers after that. I liked your post.

Perthgirl, I came into this thread very quickly after your first post, and pointed out where the email you were sending out had some wording that might discourage a reply. Have you tried writing a different email and sending that out? Have you tried any other methods of approaching breeders? Or are you just going to keep writing angry posts because your one email didn't get the response you want? I haven't blamed breeders or buyers. But you might get a more replies if you don't ask complicated questions about criteria, and you give them few sentences about the lifestyle you can provide for a pup.

Yes, he used his mouth on her. She was under control, the other dog rushed you. I think so. Put yourself in between any approaching dogs and your own, be assertive, tell the other dog to SIT or BACK OFF. In a DEEP voice, and an assertive stance. Stamp your feet. There is more you can do, but that is a good start to frighten off about 90% of approaching dogs. She will probably be ok. Unfortunately you can't stop people being irresponsible, but you can report this dog to council, and probably should. I can imagine how you feel, and hope Lexie is ok.

There are different types, mast cell, sickle cell etc. Goldie had spindle cell sarcoma. Goldie lived for five years after diagnosis, and I don't think the cancer was what killed her in the end. She had a series of ops and metronomic chemo. I also had the option of radiotherapy. I was glad I saw a good canine oncologist. Good luck with your dog.

Over stimulation could refer to the level of stimulation or the amount of time spent stimulating. If it's the latter, then depriving pups of sleep will have a detrimental effect. I think I read a study about it a long time ago. It is important for pups to get enough sleep at the right time for good neourological development. Probably just like babies do. Aside from that I agree with Joe. Having known litters of dogs that were raised almost identically, the really top racing dogs are the ones that are born with good nerve (as well as being fast). A highly strung dog will 'run its race in the kennel' and won't have the edge that a calm dog has. A highly strung dog is probably also more likely to experience a negative socialisation situation that will reinforce fearful or defensive behaviour, because it is naturally more fearful of novelty. Good nerve, no fear, no defensiveness, curiosity for novelty (as pups), calmness and a belief in their right to win are what makes a really good race dog. Studies have been done that show that certain raising and socialisation methods will result in better adult dogs. The figures show this. But, I do not know whether breeding was taken into acount with these studies.

The comment caused offence, people took offence and then the person that made the comment calls us sad and pathetic?. Oh ok. Hopefully there will be no more accidental postings. Koalathebear, do you ever reply about the topic instead of just posting about the other people that are posting? You think The Ark has integrity, I don't know her or you from a bar of soap. This topic is not about putting down healthy dogs. It is about severely deformed dogs. If you want to hear my opinion on putting down healthy dogs, and the rational behind my thinking, why not have a search through the fifteen thousand or so posts I have done here? This isn't the thread for it.

You probably have heaps of better things to do. I know that most people are not all and many people are not most and I know when I read a negative comment about a group of people. In the middle of justifying why you think its good to keep a severely disabled dog alive, you mention that some other people (many breeders in fact) would euthanise a healthy dog for what seems like a frivolous reason. Is there some sort of implied logic there that I am missing? What does killing healthy pups have to do with this topic? What does it have to do with you? Why bring up an apalling practice in the same post that you try to justify your own practice? Your comment upset people, and it doesn't put breeders in a good light. When you say that 'many' people do something, you imply that it is not uncommon. Now you back down and say 'some'. Which is probably more accurate than 'many', but still a very harsh and irrelevant criticism. Your sly dig has been called out for what it is. If the offense you caused was truly unintentional, you wouldn't be back here calling other people sad or pathetic.

Busterdog, while it is technically correct to say that many breeders would put down a pup with cerebral palsy, it is incorrect to say that they would put that pup down because it wasn't good enough to breed or show. Miniature pinscher pups can be easily sold as pets, so the idea of putting them down just because they are not good enough to breed or show is ludicrous. There can be an absolutely huge difference between show or breeding quality and pet quality, and most breeders would not ever euthanise because of that reason and those differences. The thought is sickening to most people here, breeders and non-breeders. We come here and we can read for ourselves what many breeders think of the ethics of selling deformed dogs, we don't need to be told what 'many breeders' do. This topic has nothing to do with showing or breeding dogs, it is about dogs with very serious disabilities. Going off the topic to make a quick disparaging comment about 'many breeders' isn't appreciated at all. It seems like a sly little dig.

Yes, but having your own dogs there means that there is a danger to them, and that they could cause a danger. Even if held on lead. There were other people there to attend to the baby. I wouldn't want my dogs exposed to a nearby dog fight, as dog fights upset or excite other dogs. The last thing this scene needed was two more excitable dogs barking or wanting to have a go. Reducing risk to all involved means removing your dogs from a scene like this immediately. The only thing I would suggest to others in this sort of situation is to try to walk away calmly. If you run, it may encourage them to chase. But Jimmay might not have had time to walk calmly.

Humans were not in danger from the dogs, the dogs were dog aggressive, not human aggressive. Once the baby and the old man were lying on the ground, what is the urgency? It isn't as if they can fall any further than that. If you have dogs with you, and there is a dog fight occurring, it is not a good idea to go off and leave your dog unattended. I would remove my dogs as soon as possible, Exactly like the OP did. I know somebody that rushed in to help in a similar incident (a human was caught up in the fight and hurt), their own dog joined in, and then was declared dangerous. I would never tie up my dog either. If it managed to get loose, it would be in as much danger as the maltese and as much trouble as the staffords. Your legal responsibility is to control your dog. Not to help people who have lost balance and fallen over.

Exactly how Im feeling. Well if you go back and think about all the advice given in this thread, and possible reasons why you didnt get the email response you wanted, you might feel differently. Nobody is promising you excellent customer service. There isn't enough profit in good dog breeding for the type of service you might get buying a car or a house. But if you want a really good dog, you put your feelings about breeders aside and keep trying. It might be worth you contacting ACD rescue (anywhere in Australia), letting them know what you are after in a dog and telling them a bit about your life and family. They may have a dog in foster care that will meet your needs for a happy healthy dog, and you won't have to deal with breeders. The only person that will directly benefit from you getting a dog is you. Nobody is going to make a fortune out of you, or chase you for your business. So the dog you get out of this whole buying process will reflect the effort that you are willing to put in. Going to a BYB or petshop will lessen your chance of getting a good dog, it isn't a direct threat to a hobby breeder or anyone else here.

No right and wrong from a behavioural point of view, just desirable or undesirable behaviour. In zoos now they feed randomly, and not by the clock. This means that the animals behave more naturally. Dogs learn to whine until they are fed, dogs learn to pull hard on leads, dogs learn to scratch and dig at a door until somebody opens it, they learn to snatch food out of babies' hands. They learn those things if they try them and they seem to work. All until they are either taught to obtain the desired resource through showing us more desirable behaviour, or until such behaviour starts to bring a negative consequence. The dog is not trying to dominate, just doing what its always done in an attempt to get what it always gets.

If 'life as normal' included communication with another dog (and it may have been subtle eye communication), then life isn't normal without the other dog being there. The normal behaviours the dog uses don't get the same reactions as they used to because there isn't the other dog there to react. That would explain the behaviour of a 'grieving' dog. I think a dog can recognise an odour as being of an identifiable thing, so that is a type of memory I guess. But the smell has to trigger the memory, I doubt the dog has the ability to conjure up a memory of the smell in its imagination. I have heard about another ability dogs have that has to do with time. A dog's sense of smell is acute, literally a million times better than ours. Dogs can smell crushed vegetation, and that is how some search or tracker dogs work, by sniffing out a trail of vegetation crushed by human feet. I heard a theory that dogs can detect the level of decomposition of the crushed vegetation, therefore knowing how long ago the trail was laid. The ability to smell to determine an increment of time. I don't know if its true, but if it is, it is way beyond our human capabilities Sniffing to see if the milk is off is about all we manage to do with our limited ability. Has anyone else heard of this?

Pups don't come with bells and whistles at all. But with ACD breeders you get either a well bred litter of pups, some of which are likely to have outstanding conformation and temperament, or you get pups where the breeding hasn't been as well considered and you are more likely to have individuals with temperament or other problems. As a pet owner you need to be clear. Do you want the best possible pet dog? There is such a fine line between good pets and show dogs, not a thousand bells and whistles.

I'm not a breeder. Nobody is saying you will not provide a good home for a dog, the things you mentioned there about your dog owning history are exactly the sort of thing you could include in an enquiry email. A few short details, without saying anything too personal, can give breeders a much better idea of where you are coming from. Your first email could have come from an international dog broker looking for litters to send to Singapore for all they know. Be friendly and open and tell a particular breeder why you have chosen them as the breeder to breed your next dog.

You seem to have a defensive attitude. Did you want advice on your email or did you just want to complain? Good breeders already put in the legwork by breeding excellent dogs. Good breeders often have no problems finding homes for their dogs. So there is an imbalance there that puppy buyers just have to put up with. There are plenty of ways to find out more about breeders than by asking them to give you information about themselves in writing. Replying to questions by email is very time consuming and not something that all breeders can do. You don't show that you value a really good breeder any more than an average one. Finding a list of breeders and sending of an email like that could not be described as legwork. If you really like this breeders dogs, why not explain why you do like them instead of sending them the form letter? Breeders don't usually have to provide long detailed emails about themselves, they usually provide info on websites or you can find out info in other ways. They develop a reputation within their breed. and within the show and breeding world. The dogs they breed are out there being examples of themselves for people to observe. But how will breeders find out about you unless you tell them about you? The demand for quality dogs is high, and people are prepared to wait if they are really committed. If you just see dogs as something that should be produced on demand and sold like any other low value retail household product, you are not really overly attractive as a dog owner. Breeders do not always look at dog breeding as a business, many look at it as a hobby, and not one where they are there to provide a service to the dog buying public. Pet shops are for people that want to buy a dog without any regard to quality. Quality costs more, and in Australia the cost is in time and effort rather than in cash. Good dogs are worth a lot more than average ones, but the cash price doesn't usually reflect that. In an email enquiry you don't have to volunteer a lot of detailed information at the start. But requesting a lot of detailed information from somebody that doesn't know you will probably not get far either. Providing a brief outline about your family to the breeder would probably be more helpful in motivating the breeder to deal with you. I understand why people are complaining, and I agree the situation isn't good, but you will get further if you treat the acquisition of the dog as you would if adopting a child, and less like you are down at Harvey Norman or Retravision trying to compare electrical goods. People either accept the situation or they don't, whinging here won't be able to alter it. I agree with those who are a bit wary of the 'no papers' breeder.

If you ask them what their criteria is, they may be reluctant to respond by email. They will have a criteria, but may prefer to check prospective puppy buyers out in their own way, rather than being able to write down a list. Many puppy buyers will happily and convincingly agree to any criteria a breeder cares to set, knowing full well they will do differently once the dog is home. What can you offer a puppy? It is good for you to list all the things that make you a good potential dog owner. Unprompted by what a breeder's criteria may be. A breeder may be flexible and want to look at the whole picture of you as a dog owner and get a feeling about you, they may not have a strict checklist of criteria. Your email is asking the breeder to make the effort and tell you more about themselves. You need to put in some legwork yourself first, find out about different breeders, and then email them. Instead you are sending out this email to a large number of breeders that you have never met. If there is a high demand for pups then you will probably have to go on a waiting list of some sort and be able to explain or demonstrate why you would be a suitable dog owner. Go to some dog shows, talk to people after they have come out of the ring, be friendly. You will have plenty of time, the breed is judged early in the day. You will have the dog for over ten years. If you want a really good one, you might just have to wait.

We look at the clock to tell the time or maybe the sky. Dogs live in a world of sounds and smells and can get cues from things such as the rhythms of traffic noise and rhythms of nocturnal wildlife odours. Things we cannot perceive or don't bother to notice happen fairly regularly over 24 hour periods, and the dog can learn to react to cues that we would miss.

I don't think the two articles are conflicting, rather they are separate things. Dogs learn by conditioning. They react to cues. There is lots of information about the different ways dogs learn in the training forum. While dogs do anticipate, I don't think they consciously think about the past. Rather a trigger or cue will set off instinct, overridden to a certain degree by whatever reaction is conditioned into the dog. The conditioned reaction is a repeating of a behaviour that has been successful for the dog in the past. It isn't necessary for the dog to think about why. Google Pavlov's dog for a simple explanation. The second quote is about how the dog's biology provides some internal cues and triggers for behaviour. Dogs live in the moment.

I think that territory can be a resource, just like the food or the possession. A dog can consider a place (and the things that are within it) as its own territory if it is regularly taken there for activity. With dogs that live together or not, I don't think any incident is just about generally being 'the boss', it's about controlling territory or another specific resource and will also depend on whether the dogs are aroused/excited/motivated enough for a challenge at that moment. Dominant dogs can and do challenge other dogs to retain their dominant position when they feel its worthwhile to do so to control a resource, I wouldn't say they are never reactive. But I wouldn't say that every dog that reacts to another dog is being or attempting to be dominant. You wouldn't be able to gently turn the head and avert the gaze of a dog that was overreacting defensively, but you can do it with a self-assured dog that is calmly and stiffly sizing up a likely competitor who is doing the same thing back. In fact, I don't really like using the word dominant to describe a dog, as I believe that dog heirachy is fluid, and a dog can only be dominant in a particular time and circumstance and in relation to the other dogs it is with. If we are trying to describe an individual dog and its inherent traits there are much better words to use than dominant. Better to use words that describe a dog's actions, rather than just a label like that. Yes, I very much commend this summary of the dominance is very good explanation I thinking also. Many a time people tell me Joe, my dog is very hard and dominant. What I see sometimes is insecure dog working aggressively in the defense drive, or I see territorial dog working in defense drive feeling his territory is under the threat. Sometimes they tell me Joe, this dog is weak and lacking manhood, he just stand there and do nothing?. But, sometimes this dog who stand there and do nothing, is very confident and dominant dog and he do nothing because nobody challenge him and the other dogs submit to his aura, yes? Dominance is very difficult term, and meaning different things for different peoples and groups, but most important for me saying (my opinion) please for nobody thinking automatic that dominant means aggression and reactive is not true. Many true dominant dogs never fighting another dog because the other dogs submitting to the dominance aura he projecting. Is like nobody much will pick a fight with a soldier on guard with machine gun, you not beat him un armed is a given. The submissive dog he think the same with the dominant dog is a given he dont win should he fight him, so the soldier and the dominant dog can stand there and do nothing, yes? Thanks Joe. Yes, definitely. One dog I had, Sam, was very confident, happy, peaceful and could be described as dominant. He was never aggressive, and didn't react much to other dogs apart from standing still and tall, and a quick bum sniff if he could be bothered. He did not even acknowledge toy-sized dogs at all, it was as though they didn't exist. No matter what they did to him. He would react to a bitch in season by drooling copiously all over her. We went to agility class every week. There was a large male rough collie there, of similar temperament to Sam. Both of these dogs were surrounded by dozens of other dogs. Both were happy to be at agility and very well behaved. Then Sam and the Collie started eye balling each other when we were waiting our turn for pieces of equipment. They would stiffen and scratch and stare with a hard eye for a while, then Sam would start to growl very deeply and softly. You could feel it more than hear it. But all I needed to do to stop the stare and the stance was to gently turn Sam's head away and lead him off. But I had to do this every time I caught Sam staring, and so did the collie's owner. This only happened when standing around for ages waiting for equipment, both dogs were fine when off lead and working. So we made sure we kept our dogs right away from each other and the situation couldn't develop.

No defaming is going on. Just a little story of what happenned. Could you please post the name of the group? I want to know who this group is that has no interest in hearing about best practices that other orgs are using.