Greytmate

All dogs' eye rims are supposed to match their nose color. So all correctly coloured weims have red/liver eye rims.

Dash, you might want to look after your old dog a bit better by stopping the young dogs from hassling her to the point where she has to growl at them. She obviously isn't big enough and doesn't have the teeth to stop them herself. Why wouldn't you excuse her behaviour? Is she supposed to allow herself to be used as a plaything by your younger, larger and more boisterous dogs? Also, it is a natural instinct for many dogs to aggressively bark to guard their property. If it is a problem, you need to take action, not the rest of the world outside your property boundary.

There is no accurate test. I would call your dog a terrier cross, because he looks like a terrier. There could be a number of breeds in there.

Not having a lot of experience with defence drives, I accept that many of the defensive behaviours might be the same as predatory behaviours, but the description given does fit prey drive pretty well. I also think that the different drives may not be as separate as the labels would imply. What you describe as 'barrier frustration' could happen when a dog is frustrated in any type of drive. I think its good that this topic has come up in general rather than training, as I don't often visit that forum, and don't use prey drive in training at all. Melza, a lot will depend on which line (more than breed) you get, as well as socialisation, desensitisation, and good old fashioned training. But management is good too. I'm a bit short of time to explain a bit more, but don't let 'predatory drift' put you off, because it may not be an issue you can't cope with.

Greytmate I have read many of your posts (and nekhbets) on this topic - and I have found them really interesting Can you describe what prey drive looks like at all please? or maybe even a video? (but that one may be a big ask, I realise..) I 'think' I have witnessed PDrift first hand - but not sure - maybe just an aggressive dog. Maybe you might like to comment? This is what I witnessed: My entire male BC in an empty lot playing fetch with me - so very active (duhh..!?) Big dog barking along an adjoining fence line for maybe 5 mins - didn't think anything of it - me or my boy. A totally unexpected attack from the same dog - a very large pedigree GSD - that escaped this backyard. The dog hurtled across the 20m at a speed that was mind blowing. The dog had his tail fully erect, hackles up. His eyes were entirely focussed on my dog and his stare did not waver for one millisecond - (even though I was yelling my head off, waving my arms etc) His run was low and focussed, not bounding etc... He went straight for the neck hold on my BC and would not stop. The owner was home (thank god..) and raced out but could not call his dog off verbally. He was forced to physically intervene. Owner was very, very shaken. Also - does the "drift" part mean a drift in their target-prey? (ie from rabbits to small dogs for eg) What you describe sounds very much like a dog in prey drive, you just missed seeing the first part. When the prey drive is triggered the dog will prick its ears up, and stare and stiffen up. But instead of putting its head up high, and being up on its toes like a dog would when trying to challenge another dog, the toes are planted firmly and the elbows are bent. The dog stares at the neck of the prey, so its neck will be low. The tail may be slightly up or slightly down or in between, and the tail may wag slowly or moderately, but not quickly or wildly. Or it may be held stiffly. The dog's heart rate quickens and adrenaline is released causing blood to be directed to the muscles and away from the brain. This means that the dog is less likely to be able to be distracted or impossible to distract. The dog is likely to be completely silent at this stage. The dog may sniff the air towards the prey, but not in a normal bum sniffing way, they are not interested in that end of the prey at all. In my testing the dogs were safely restrained and so that is as far as it went. Then the test would be stopped before the huge lunge towards the prey. The dogs would sometimes bark in frustration at the prey when they realised that they were restrained from reaching it. Many people would be completely unaware that their dog was even in prey drive until it took off. Even if you knew what to look for it would be too late. The way to manage prey drive is to prepare for it and avoid the triggers. Some training can be done, but that is a lot of work, and its not something that many trainers can even recognise, let alone deal with. Three variations in prey drive are the amount or intensity of the drive, the type of trigger, and where that dog finishes its predatory sequence. So most prey drive is harmless and will stay harmless. Toy playing includes natural prey drive, greyhound racing is natural prey drive. Ball fetching is prey drive, ball obsession is strong intensity of prey drive, ball destroying is a fuller sequence of prey drive. In my opinion, dogs that display prey drive towards other dogs, or people, need to be strictly controlled in public. (Leashed or muzzled as well depending on how far that dog takes the sequence) Dogs like that should not be bred from as pets either. We just don't want dogs doing that to people. Environment plays a part on determining what the dogs triggers will be, but it is an instinct. Dogs and cats (and probably other animals) are often able to instinctively recognise when a dog is showing prey drive towards them (they read dog language better than us), maybe because the ones that don't recognise that threat are less likely to pass on their genes. There can be a feedback loop of non-verbal communication between the predator and prey which can intensify or decrease the drive. Corvus, I am very clear in my mind what prey drive is and how it works, and I never get confused by the label. But I don't 'train in drive' . I use the term simply to describe a type of instinct. I guess I could call it Predatory Aggression, but it isn't always aggressive. Anyone selling dogs as pets really needs to have an idea of what 'variety' of prey drive might be present in the dogs they sell. And make a real effort not sell the dangerous ones. I don't know if I like the term predatory drift either, but so far you haven't come up with any alternatives that I can understand.

I know a lot about prey drive in dogs, and have tested many dogs for prey drive towards other animals and dogs. I don't know about drift, but I think that many people have no idea what prey drive looks like, what might trigger it, and so are surprised when their dog acts out of prey drive. Is the prey drive suddenly switched on, or is it that there was never the right trigger before? Just because a dog is wagging his tail and standing still quietly doesn't mean he is being a good boy. Anyone using an aggressive stafford bitch for breeding family pets is unethical, whether the aggression is predatory or other.

A dog may be wearing a muzzle for reasons other than a biting habit. No I wouldn't take a risk with dogs in my care. I use muzzles routinely with other people's dogs in my care, as a risk preventative, not because any of them have biting habits. If they had a known biting habit they would not be out mixing with other dogs at all.

I have a pen for each dog , and that is where they get high value treats like pigs' ears or bones. Nobody gets to bury anything. Whatever you put in the sandpit, if it's worth digging for it may be worth fighting over. Maybe just have some low value toys like rope tugs lying around for them to pick up if they want to play. I wouldn't encourage digging in the sandpit unless the dog already has a serious digging problem that needs to be redirected.

Dogs may wear muzzles for a variety of reasons. To make a blanket rule without looking at the dog as an individual is very disrespectfully declining business. Especially since you admit to having no experience with muzzling. A muzzle prevents biting, so your attitude to muzzling makes it much more likely that your dogs will cause injury than a muzzled dog could. LOL. Many people are scared of a muzzle. It is shame that some so-called professionals are as well.

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A muzzle won't stop a possum clawing a dog's eye out. The possums need to be managed for the safety of all.

Most Queensland councils, including Brisbane and Ipswich have a health law which strictly prohibits taking dogs to cafes, or to tables outside, or even near outside tables. If there are cafes allowing it, it is only because the health department hasn't caught them yet. This is a health law, not a dog control law. I found Victoria to be dog friendly, as you can take dogs on public transport, inside shops that are not food businesses, to the gardens and to most other places, including outside cafes. Dogs are completely banned from many areas of QLD. But we do have a large subculture of undesirable dog owners here in QLD that are not as common in Victoria. Their behaviour is the reason we have the extra laws I think.

Danielle, the product is 'safe' for your dog to use. It won't hurt your dog. The problem is that it is an antibiotic. Routine use of antibiotics can cause some strains of bacteria to develop a resistance. Then we have nasty bugs that cannot be stopped at all. The staining on the dog's mouth is caused by bacteria. But it is better to look at other ways to reduce the amount of bad bacteria on the dog's skin, before we kill every bacteria that is on the skin, the good bacteria and the bad. The good bacteria and the bad bacteria can live in balance and that will reduce skin problems. Once you kill all the bacteria with an antibiotic, the bad bacteria may grow back a lot faster, and make the problem much worse as soon as you try to stop using the product.

The type of heat in an unventilated space is different from radiant heat from the sun. Outside in the sun, a dog's coat can deflect a lot of radiant heat (or absorb it), and its mouth is always keeping the dog adequately cooled with a powerful and efficient evaporative cooling system. In an unventilated space such as a car, the dog's own cooling system is useless, and the dog can very quickly overheat. Full cross-flow ventilation is required to keep a dog cool enough. I understand that, but my dogs have come in from outside way hotter than they have ever gotten being left in my car for 5 minutes (both my dogs have significant amounts of black on their coats). As I say though, I don't do it when it's hot. I hate seeing dogs in unattended cars when it's hot too. How do you know their core body temperature? How do you judge how hot they are? Feeling the coat will not tell you. The amount of panting won't tell you either, because a panting dog is running its internal cooling system. A dog's core temperature has to remain within a certain range or its muscles and organs start to melt down, very quickly. The damage is irreversible. Let's not confuse the issue here. DOGS DIE IN HOT CARS.

The type of heat in an unventilated space is different from radiant heat from the sun. Outside in the sun, a dog's coat can deflect a lot of radiant heat (or absorb it), and its mouth is always keeping the dog adequately cooled with a powerful and efficient evaporative cooling system. In an unventilated space such as a car, the dog's own cooling system is useless, and the dog can very quickly overheat. Full cross-flow ventilation is required to keep a dog cool enough.

Nobody deserves to have windows broken, it is what sometimes has to happen to release a dog from a car. I am not sure why you keep posting. You asked what other people do with their dogs, we told you, and you seem to take it as a personal insult. We don't do what we do with our own dogs with your needs in mind. We are talking about days, not evening or night time. Nobody really cares what you do with your dog when you go out for a Pizza, and if it's dark, nobody will notice your dog anyway, unless it is barking its head off. As long as people know how hot it can get in a stationary car with no ventilation, they will probably choose to avoid doing that to their dog. Nothing you said has made any difference to that. I hope people have taken away something useful from this topic.

A sunny day in winter or any day in summer. Depends on where you live I guess.

You have to plan around the dogs. If the car is in full shade and the car has full cross-flow ventilation (while still secure), a dog could be left inside for a few minutes. I would not go out of sight of the vehicle. This would only be possible in a car that had been modified to allow this, with crates or security grills. A normal sedan with windows down a bit does not allow for adequate ventilation, nor is it secure.

I would go into the shop and insist the car owner was called over the PA and asked to immediately return to their vehicle. If the owner did not respond within a reasonable amount of time I would ask that the shop staff call the police.

Yup! But these dogs have intelligence, character, liveliness, loyalty, and sensitivity, beyond all others. "Best dogs in the world" if you want to talk to their owners. Totally agree with everything you said. I could never be without a terrier now. Big dog in little dogs bodies, with personality plus!! That is a good way to sum up a terrier, except some of them are big dogs. But whichever size terrier you get, you are going to get a lot of dog. I am not a terrier person at all, they are way too much dog for me. The four greyhounds I have here in the house right now are less dog than one young JRT.

Terrorists.

Your choice of words. The thing is that a dog with extreme prey drive doesn't temper his responses to the 'level of threat'. He is the threat. With as much natural instinct as a hungry fox or wolf or bear preying for food, prey drive in some dogs can be completely ruthless. Crazy mad, viscous, psychotic. See, chase, grab, kill. Unfair labels, but true. They are animals and that is what some animals do, depending on their genes.

Can't stand people that make excuses for uncontrolled aggression in small dogs. I hope they are evicted to give the neighbours a break.

It is surprising to me. None of the dogs I ever had have ever reacted that way, and I would be surprised if they did.

Get yourself a unique artwork or something then, if that is the best reason you have. These dogs sound quite dangerous to the rest of the community. You have no idea what they are really like to be with, own, or live next to.