Quickasyoucan

We had two lots of welsh springers who ate socks when they were young had had to have an op, one belonging to us one to my cousins. Both went on to live long lives! Needless to say Mum and Dad have taken pet insurance out for subsequent springers! A lab down my dog park ate a whole nappy a couple of weeks ago, but amazingly it came out whole the other end! Glad it wasn't my dog! Glad the pups op went okay too! Cheers

I don't think you can give a guarantee in the true sense, because as so many people have said before, it comes down to whether or not the owner is prepared to put in the hard work. I think there are people out there (owners) who are "shoppers", they go along, hear a theory, try it for about 2 days, then let it lapse, say it isn't working and move on to the next thing. That to me is not a mark of failure on the part of the trainer (whatever the owner might think), but a lack of commitment on the part of the owner. That said, I guess one of the major aspects in being good trainer IMO is the ability to read people. Unfortunately for you you need to be a people AND dog reader! I think you need to be able to assess in your first meeting whether you think that the owner is likely to be committed in solving the problem or not as well as weighing this up against the severity of the dog's own issues. All in all a complicated business, I don't envy trainers/behaviourists that job. I think for me what I expect more than anything is ongoing support, even if I might be a bit slow on the uptake and taking longer to work through things than might be expected, I would be unhappy with any trainer/behaviourist who just basically sent me on my way or washed their hands of me, that is the "guarantee" that I would be looking for. Luckily the one person I have seen has been great in that respect and we are getting there in our own bumbling way

Kelpie-i, I was very interested to hear you post as I am almost all the way through Dogs. A lot of the early stuff was very interesting to me, the evolution theory, the chapters on behavioural conformation etc. Just wondering, though, and I know this is off topic whether Ray touched on some of his more controversial theories in your seminar, by that I mean his negative view relationship between man and assistance animals, his views that purebred breeders are breeding certain species to a genetic dead end?? From what I understand from what I was reading particularly about the first point Ray believes that using dogs as assistance dogs amounts to "cruel and unusual punishment" and anyway can serve only to prolong the life of handicapped people who are anyway a drain on society!! I am paraphrasing here, but for me, whilst the first half of the book was extremely interesting, he seemed to go off the rails into quite extreme and depressing views in the second on the relationship between man and domestic dog. I also found it interesting that whilst, with his sledding background, he seems to put this sport on a pedestal, when it comes to other sorts of relationships with animals and humans his views are very gloomy? Perhaps I should have started another thread, but I am just interested in your views as you have heard the man in person.

I am sorry to say I totally disagree, because a dog can run does NOT mean that it's hips are fine. I have a bitch here that can move all day and she works and works...but sadly her hips are stuffed. Another example - a dog that did a lot of winning in the AB ring as well as doing very very well at Specialty level did move great, could keep moving correctly....but sadly that one had very high scoring hips.................you would have never known by the way it moved. As I have said .......Just because a dog moves great does Not mean it has great hips, radiographic evidence is the only True way to know for sure. I would rather have an informed picture of the health status of hips than guess based on movement alone..............but that is my opinion. I have to agree. I recently discovered (x-rays for a different issue) that Jake has mild hip displasia in one hip. He has always been a running and jumping nutter. A lot of the stuff I have read says one of the features of HD is that there is often little correlation between physical syptoms and radiological evidence, ie a dog can have minor problems and show signs of pain and movement limitation but conversely can have stuffed hips and still move well and show little signs of pain. I think that is part of why HD is so frustrating. Jake is a rescue crossbreed (SBT x kelpie?), but I if I was buying a purebred dog, I would definitely want to know about hip scores. I wouldnt' count SBT's as a large dog but they have HD problems.

Sounds like you are doing the best thing possible. I am sensitive to barking being annoying too, does my head in for some reason (luckily I don't have a barker but next door but one has howling and barking beagles ), particularly if it is constant. But sounds like you are nipping Grover in the bud pretty well, hope it works out for you. Still curious about the legality of e-collars in NSW, don't know why as I haven't a need for one, guess I just like answers!

So has anyone worked out the law in NSW?

Regs and Act need to be read together as one refers to the other http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/con.../poctar2006506/ http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/con.../poctaa1979360/ Still not quite sure what it means though as it seems to refer to the innotek type ones that are used to stop escape artists (containment systems). Or are those what we are talking about???

"Shock" collars is the name of the collars from which the modern day "e-collar" or "electronic collar" has evolved. Today, "shock" collars are a far cry from the older style collars. But yes, you're right Trisven13. Electronic collar devices and e-collar use is illegal in NSW. Now I am confused. What is the difference between what you are referring to and what Ruthless is talking about in her thread? She's in NSW. Ok - I'm willing to defer on this. It was my understanding that the use of electronic devices on dogs in NSW was taboo. In 'googling' to revisit your "Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act" I realise how much easier it is to navigate the Victorian on-line version ..... although that is perhaps because I'm more used to that site than I am to sites of other States. I'm not saying I'm wrong - I'm saying that I am now doubting myself - especially because I am not constantly in touch with the laws of other States. If I can navigate to find the relevant sections of the Act I'll re-visit here with them. I had a look at the Act and Regs, its lists acceptable devices in Schedule 1 of Regs, for dogs these seem to be pingg string and invisible containment collars Lots of other things you can do to cattle tho some of them quite rude!!!

Hopefully someone in the know will jump on here and tell us!!! More than a few people seem to have them here who are from NSW. Sorry you have a loony neighbour BTW they are the worst.

"Shock" collars is the name of the collars from which the modern day "e-collar" or "electronic collar" has evolved. Today, "shock" collars are a far cry from the older style collars. But yes, you're right Trisven13. Electronic collar devices and e-collar use is illegal in NSW. Now I am confused. What is the difference between what you are referring to and what Ruthless is talking about in her thread? She's in NSW.

Well done Ruth, sounds like Trixie is going really well. :rolleyes: I have a friend's husband who could do with an e-collar to get him off the lounge, do you think they come in human sizes too?

Ollie sounds like he is one tough man. You are an inspiration to all us stafford owners Staffyluv with your continuing fight for Ollie. Hope he continues to improve. Cheers

I grew up with Welshies in the UK and love them. Just wish I had known then about all the things you could do with them. Ours were just pets. They are quite wilful tho, our first bitch, Sian used to give you that look of I know you want me to come, but this bird/noise in the gorse is more interesting!!

I don't know much about GSD's but they sure have changed in looks since I was young. I have seen a few young dogs around the Northern Beaches and they seem to have a very strange gait, almost difficulty walking. I think I would want to look at temperament and conformation.

Basenji - because people say it is so hard. But Stafford because I love them GSP because they look like versatile dogs.

Problem is that vaccinated dogs can be completely unaffected by the virus but still carry it. ;) PF forgive my ignorance but if an adult dog has had a full vaccination regime can it still catch parvo? I am afraid I don't know enough about vaccination of pups (my boy was 10=12 months old when I got him - nearly 6 years old now) to understand the puppy regime. I actually thought from talking to friends that after a shot at about 18 weeks the initial vaccination protocol was finished. That's why I was surprised to read that poor MM's dog is 7 months old. ;) What is the general thinking about vaccination, parvo and immunity? I mean is it like some vaccinations not 100% effective? For example coming from England we had a nasty vaccination for TB called the BCG at 13 years old, but turns out I still caught primary TB at some stage according to chest x-rays they took for something else ;) When I asked the doc they said the BCG vaccination was only 15% effective!! Why bother really in that case!! BTW I am not a walking infectious TB case, I have only had primary exposure in case anyone is panicking!! :rolleyes:

I tried all of the above with Jake and he wasn't keen. Until I had another dog to stay who has always used a dog door. Given the choice of not following the other dog through or braving the "scary" door, Jake chose to use it. I followed up every successful time with praise. Now he uses it absolutely no problem.

I am very sorry for your loss. What a wonderful shot that is of him. I hope you have many happy memories of you time with him, once the initial shock has passed. He looks so beautiful. From a fellow staffy lover.

Morita, How did you confine your dog post op? I have been told by my vet that she suspects cruciate degeneration in my 5.5-6 year old staffy x. We are having further diagnostic tests, but my vet is pushing for an operation. However the kicker for me is my boy is not actually lame, just has clicky knees and I am very reluctant to put him through an op and extensive confinement when he is not currently lame. Obviously your girl is much smaller than mine (Jake is taller than a staffy and weighs about 18kg). Were you advised to crate her? What exercise if any are you allowed to do 4 weeks out?

K9: be careful with the keep her at home part of the equation, this isnt neutralisation. I have cut & pasted this section (before someone else does). K9: I keep the dog at home due to the Fear period not the neutralisation. Yes I was only mentioning that because they happened to do it anyway due to fears that she would catch something at the local park, I guess what I was saying was she was at home (as it happened not due to following any advice or training pattern in particular) during what would have been her fear period. But as I said she has always been nervy. Just about the keep it at home thing, though, you would be doing things with the dog at home I assume but in a controlled environment, interaction with dogs/people/etc but where you could control the situation? Can you expand on the keep it at home in its first fear period (or at least find me the quote where it is expanded upon!).

Do you think though ME, that if you had had her earlier and had done that early exposure, as per the beginning of the thread that the outcome might have been different? How much also would temperament play in this? I have a friend who has a rottie bitch who from the day they brought her home at 8 weeks has been nervy and fearful. They did actually keep her at home until she was about 18 weeks (they were worried about disease), but I would say her temperament has stayed the same. I always questioned whether she was simply born with weak nerves? (I am not suggesting that about your dog BTW as obviously I know nothing about her). Was just food for thought for me. ETA was typing this and missed the next two posts.

K9: locking a dog up & then showing it something exciting is how we build drive, take away the locking up & the things they say aren't that exciting. For example when I was training in Thailand last year, all of the dogs have constant exposure to hundreds of dogs that roam the street, no aggression, no playing & no (zero) interest in each other. Same as when a dog is born into a yard that has chickens running around, they become accustomed to them & dont see the chickens as a trigger to prey drive in many cases. If you exclude the use of segregation for building drive tho, say for your joe blow average pet owner who just wants a dog that is acceptable in society. As I see it in theory, "socialisation" ie to dogs, chickens, etc, should be the same thing as "neutralisation", that is dogs in thailand (and maybe 20 years ago in Oz) are (were) neutralised through flooding which is intense socialisation really. However, "socialisation" in practice in modern Australia mainly due to the restrictions placed on dog ownership etc, means that exposing your dog to strange dogs has too many upredictables outcomes?

K9: The dogs in our street didnt pose a great interest as our dogs hadnt been withheld from them behind a locked gate for example, so when they saw them it was daily, there was little excitement from either party which new dogs I guess found un rewarding. K9: Pens, runs, separate yards, thats what we recommend. But how would that not make dogs an object of excitement as in the situation above as in effect you would be witholding other dogs from them. Surely running them together would have the neutralisation effect in the same way as the free roaming dogs of "olden times?". How does one not contradict the other? Not trying to be confontational, just to understand how it works?

K9: It is a reasonable theory but very hard to get right in practice,never has been good for obedience reliability though.. K9: Its all a learning curve, we would never know what was good or bad until we try both I guess, doesn't help you now though... How does the socialisation/neutralisation aspect fit in to though say 20 years ago, when dog laws were less restrictive and there were more neighbourhood mutts around constantly mingling with each other. You said earlier in the thread that dogs that spend a lot of time with other dogs tend to become "too doggy", however in those days wouldn't constant exposure have meant that the value of meeting yet another dog would have become low and in fact the dog would be neutralised to other dogs rather than more doggy? Sort of connected to that, how does it work, neutralising a dog in a multi dog household? (not that I have one but for knowledge purposes).

We tried it. Jake came straight on verbal command sat in front of me at about 1 oclock, then looked up quizzically as if to say, "where's my reward" (we've been doing drive training with a rubber ball). No formal obedience training here just stuff at home, but we do do sit before meals, treats etc so he just did what came first to mind I suppose. Interesting though.