megan_

Mrs D - would you also PM me the Melbourne contact, pretty please?

Is someone representing registered Amastaff breeders to the Minister who is going to decide?

Ninna Ottoson puzzled from wagsalot.com.au - they are for playing with under supervision though. Some of the Kyjen toys on teh site are great too - especially Hide-a-Squirrel

While I don't agree with the ruling, I didn't read anything to imply that the ruling said the above? Even before the ruling, unless you have a purebred Amastaff with papers, your amastaff/staffie looking dog could be labelled a pit bull. That is very different from a judge saying that Amastaffs and pit bulls are the same thing (thereby implying that people with papered Amastaffs are now deemed to be pit bull owners int eh eyes of the law). I feel very sorry for the poor dog - kenneled for 5 years.

2 smalls and one medium please

If she wants to do dog sports, it is worth considering that in 5 years time. she is likely to be very busy at school and may also be very social etc. I think it would be preferable to get a dog who can take or leave sport, rather than one that needs it. A sheltie would be good, or if you don't mind grooming mini schnauzers and mini poodles are great all-round family dogs. Also, if she is planning to take the dog with her when she leaves home, a smaller dog may be easier to find accommodation with.

If you are worried ask your vet to check them at your next check-up. I wouldn't be doing anything to them otherwise.

I've found with some breeders they want you to "push" a little to prove that you're serious (not a tactic I'd necessarily endorse, but each to their own). For example, my cousin bought a certain breed (let's call it an X) for her parents (they knew the dog was coming etc, she was the one who paid for it). She has 4 smallish children and mentioned to the breeder that she wanted an X too in the next few months. Breeder said she didn't sell an X to anyone with small kids - not suitable etc. Cousin stayed in touch with her, visited parents' dog , did research (on the breed, on crate training) etc. A year later, she contacted the breeder again and the breeder was happy to sell her an X. She had, in the breeder's eyes, proven that she understood what an X required, and were serious about wanting one. The puppy is now 5 months old and is living a great life with the kids. The breed is a bigger than a cav though and is more robust. If you really want a dog, I think it is wise to be polite put firm - chase people up and be sure to ask for feedback and advise. Why are people knocking you back? Do the breeders that are "rejecting" you suggest an older dog? I agree with PF here, older dogs are much more of a "known" quantity. If a breeder is worth their salt, they would have socialised the dog. If they aren't socialising their older dogs, I wouldn't want a pup from them anyway. ETA: Even if a dog hasn't been living with kids, they still might be very used to them and get on like a house on fire. It all depends on the dogs temprement and the level of socialisation that they've had.

Especially since everyone says they're a great breed with children!

What I heard about this idea of starting a 'clean up' group, sounded like another version where cleanliness, adequate food & shelter, & health care were seen as the essentials. But nothing was said about 2 critical issues re the breeding & homing of dogs as companion animals: 1. providing for socialisation & a range of experiences in the real world...for the dogs & puppies. Both essential to the development of dogs as companion animals; 2. breeder responsibility, at point of sale, to match puppies with owners, screen owners, provide settling in & maintenance advice & later support. Essential for the welfare of both dogs & new owners. Both 1 & 2 are standard basics done by 'good' registered breeders. Australian research even confirms that claim for 1. Absence of 1 & 2 demonstrate puppy farming, IMO.....whoever does it. Also this group would continue to mix purebreds with health aims in view. However, I recently posted an excellent paper from the Norwegian Kennel Club & School of Veterinary Science which set out breeding practices with health aims in view.....while still only producing purebreds. What is absent in Australia, is a public voice like that, representing the kennel clubs & another independent academic view. This is the clincher - this is the next phase of the debate that we need to have now. Most puppy farmers project an image of rolling hills and cleanliness. But this isn't all that well-adjusted COMPANION breeds need. If we only focus on the "bad" puppy farmers with filthy diseased dogs, the large-scale commercial farmers will thrive. A friend bought a dog from a farm recently. She told me that the dogs had 3 acres to run free in. She went and checked it out and the dogs looked well cared for and the operation looked very professional. Thing is, companion breeds don't need or want 3 acres to run around in, they want - need - a name, games, and interactions with their humans. Whenever I see these stories I think of my Lucy. She was a breeding bitch at a very dodgy puppy farm and was rescued by the Schnauzer Club. After a few days in my home, she started coming into the house and trying to be with me. She was terrified - shaking, with darting eyes - but still wanted human interaction - it was in her breeding. When she saw me cuddle Fergus her tail wagged frantically. To this day, whenever I say her name, she gets excited.

agree sas - if the dog was showing emotion as puppy farm images flashed up I doubt anyone would laugh. How is a girl, running naked down a street after being bombed by naphlam (sp) with her clothes literally blown off any nicer? SmoothieGirl may have reported it, but Troy made the decision that it was offensive and removed it.

I agree. An off-leash dog park is for the dogs. Some owners would feel uncomfortable that there are kids present in case their dog bowled them over and may feel as tho' they must leash their dog. What is the point of an off-leash dog park then? It's not fair to the other users of the off-lead park. Please take the kids to a playground with your dog for an on-lead walk and visit the off-leash park without the kids Are your parks actually dog parks? Or parks where dogs are allowed?

It depends what you mean by a "dog park". Where I live, there is no such thing - there are public parks where you are allowed your dog to go off leash, but they are not dedicated dog areas. People play footy, jog, sit and chat in the park, with a few dogs running around. For the most part, it works really well. At most times, there are only a few dogs at the park at once. There are a few families that come every night with their small kids. The families get to spend time together, and the dog learns how to play and interact with the kids. The parents speak to the kids about their day and have some fun time together. I think it is a great idea - beats sitting in front of the TV not talking. The family that plays together, stays together and all that... That said, I wouldn't take my child (or myself) to a fully fenced, official "dog" park at peak time. Edited because "fotty" is not a word - neither is "teh"

And he says that they need to be managed very carefully. He wrote an article on his (not so) new pup a while back and some people here got upset because he said... shock horror..... they are powerful dogs that need very strong leadership and someone to manage their interactions with other dogs.

Huski - my boy was attacked by a dobe when he was a pup (actually stalked, charged, picked up and flung). Yet he has no fear of dobes and we've even run into the attacker (I didn't realise they were there until it was too late) and he was fine. IT just isn't in his making to be a "strike first because the other dog might attack" type dog. Genetics certainly played a big part in his reaction, lord knows it wasn't my mishandling of the event (when we bumped into the dobe later I was visibly shaken, he was calm).

If my dog was at the kennels I wouldn't want stangers to be coming in at all times, especially if my dog was being played with etc and someone had to leave them to show a potential client around.

I choose to disagree with you there Greytmate. The aim of the socialisation and training for different breeds may not be identical but the same effort is required. People who think Whippets are timid dogs (and that's a lot of folk) need to meet Howard my boy. He's outgoing, confident and friendly with strange people and dogs. The fact that I socialised the pants of him as a bub and keep that up is not a coincidence in my eyes. He was a confident pup but I chose to build on that, not take it for granted. If you want any chance of recalling a sighthound that has to be constantly practiced also. I've seen way too many dogs who people have failed to do work on because they believed that breed characteristics would prevail. The "naturally obedient" dog is the greatest myth of all. I agree with this, but some breeds are far more forgiving of an owner making a socialisation mistake. I'm not going to mention my breed here (small, social dogs) because they'll be in for a bettering, but I have made many mistakes when socialising them. There have been times eg when I was suffering from migraines) when I've been a very poor leader. I haven't endangered myself or anyone else as a result of this. They got a bit too demanding, but they have never snapped or bitten me. Even if they decided to launch an attack, I could pick them upw tih one hand and throw them in the next room to save myself. With other, more dominant, powerful breeds, my lapses in leadership could have led to very serious consequences.

Different dogs suit different life situations. Some dogs don't do well in an ever changing, busy household. They don't need to be teased to lash out - the stress of everyday living can be too much. How about we just take the OP at face value rather than trying to go on a fishing expedition.

Yes. Anyone can create a login on DOL and write drivel. You don't actually need to know the owner to do that :-)

Speculation time.. and this IS pure speculation Was Rocky an outside dog allowed inside when grandson was there and otherwise relegated to the backyard? Did he not want to go outside? Had he been kept on a chain? Chained dogs are massively over represented in serious attacks on people. Had he been grabbed by the collar and harshly disciplined before.. did Mrs B try to take his collar and he reacted defensively? Did she not read the body language or dismiss a growl as the dog being "silly'.. Was he sore? Was he a young entire dominant male that wasn't going to be pushed around by someone of lesser physicality than the grandson? Had Rocky been the subject of physical abuse? Wonder what grandson's "problems" were? We'll probably never know and God knows dog owners are rarely effusive on the subject how they might have contributed to the tragedy. But what happened is the product of both genetics, environment and trigger behaviour. What I do know is that the description "family pet" covers a whole range of circumstances, some of which are not what you're average DOLer would consider meet that description. Was this a dog that was socialised, trained and exercised regularly, encouraged to be affectionate and gentle with people and had a strong social bond with Mrs B.. we probably won't learn that either. In The Age today, it said that while the dog belonged to the grandson, the dog had lived with this lady for 3 years. She lived in a flat. I'm sorry but there is no reasonable defense for the dog doing what he did (which I know you're not going PF)- her arm is almost ripped off - hardly an appropriate level of defence against a 67 year old lady.

I'd tell them they have two options: i) Extend the fence height by a few feet so that the kids can't throw knives over AND move/remove the trampoline AND lock the knives in the drawer ii) If they don't do the above within x days time, you will call the police and officially file a complaint. Do the parents realise that if their kids are jumping with KNIVEs they could very easily impale themselves?

our squeaks have arrived. Fergus has gone NUTS over them. Lucy could take or leave them. The plastic does have a certain smell - something is in them fore sure!

I wouldn't hand ANY money over to this woman for the pup. Maybe I'm getting too cynical but "I need to sell a 3 week old pup to pay for a vet bill" sounds very dodgy to me. Even if it is genuine, this sort of thing shouldn't be encouraged by giving her money.

It is the Sandowne St beach that is off-leash and fenced in Brighton. You can actually park in Sandowne St, turn left, walk 5m and you're there. The beach called "Brighton Beach" does have dog restrictions. Sorry to be pedantic but if the OP goes to Brighton Beach they'll be very dissapointed!

tell them the poo is a health hazard