wings

And your point is Tempus? Sorry I dont get the premis of your statement - there is a war on - a bloody dangerous horrible one - in this one - as in other fields of war dogs have been used to scent/ detect and protect - thier duty and willingness to serve is unquestionable IMO and I know they are given more attention and more affection than any companion dog will ever get. The dogs and the combat engineers who handle them save lives the lives of our service men and women. I loath the idea of any dog coming to harm for any reason - but I would prefer a dog having a purposefull if short life to an unwanted and stressed existance. As for 'washing out' from the military - are you suggesting we dont use dogs? As well as military service do you have any idea how many dogs work in the civilian areas as well? I hope you are not suggesting they shouldnt be worked in they way they do. All our sappers and their EED dogs are heroic and deserve all support and respect. Sorry if I am ranting - hubby is an X sapper, all be it a thousand years ago in the mid 70's I get defensive about sappers and what they have to do. Very well said both of you.

That was me before I bothered to educate myself on the issue. I wasn't as strongly anti as some but did believe the breed was inherently dangerous. I no longer believe it and share the heartbreak breed fanciers experience at seeing their dogs condemned. Looks like the dog in this case wasn't a pitbull at all. Won't stop the hysteria though. I was the same PF before I came to DOL. I actually followed people's links, read them and listened. It was very eye opening and I'm now a strong supporter of Deed not Breed. I wish more people would take the time to understand because it will only be through understanding and education that real change will occur, but it seems the general public thinks knee jerk reactions will do that instead.

Which is one of the reasons a complete ban won't go through. That's a very powerful and wealthy industry there that has helped stop 'meddling' in the entire horse world. And it's not the only strong industry under threat from a complete ban.

Brilliant I love your photos!

I doubt many, if any, bans will get put in place. There's enough groups on the other side of the fence that will stop it. What scares me is the public response, I swear the most outspoken are the people who haven't even thought about the actual effects of a live export ban. I guess I need to stop being suprised!

All these calls for outright bans scare me. So many animal groups have put out basic letters for people to use and most of them just refer to 'live export' with no mention of particular countries or animals or the intended purposes. It's worrying how readily people sign these very vague letters and send them off.

I'm so pleased things managed to work out for you and Harper :D

As someone who just went through this with my own dog I know how hard it is. Rehoming my dog was gut wrenching and heartbreaking and I felt like a complete failure. BUT it was the right thing for both me and the dog, she is in a far more suitable home and I no longer go through every day holding my breath and feeling guilty for not doing a better job at being her owner. Now I know it was a case of wrong dog, wrong time but through responsibly facing up to the problems I made sure my girl wasn't a pound statistic. I kept in contact with the new home for awhile, I made sure everything settled as it should and now that it has I've back off a bit to let my own emotional wounds heal. Maybe you'd like to do somthing similar so you know how he goes? It really helped me.

Sometimes I can't stand my own species... at least there are wonderful people like Teebs to balance out the crud the other side create! Poor little Tip, thank-you Teebs for doing what you could for him. DA you've also made me reach for the tissue box

Ok, final update and then I promise I won't keep bumping this up! My pup, although I guess I can't say 'my' anymore, is staying with the farmer she went on trial with. She's showing every inch of her natural herding ability and is really getting to work her keen kelpie mind in the best possible way! When she's not working she gets to lounge on the furniture. I still miss her, I still find myself looking for her watching me in the yard when I feed the horses! But I know that this has worked out for the best for both of us. Thanks again DOL, your support and advice really helped me make the right call here.

I am fine with the practice. There is no cruelty in it and a pointless death is suddenly able to be of value. The vets are not at fault here, it is the society that has created the wave of unwanted dogs that deserves the finger pointing. I would be horrified to have any of my animals operated on by someone fresh out of school with no live animal experience, no matter who was observing them! The idea that someone could learn this from a computer program is ridiculous. Thank-you vet people of the forum for explaining this issue from your own experiences. It is nice to see your thoughts on it and its ethics as well as how it affected your own training

Another update for everyone. My kelpie is leaving this week to go on trial with a dairy farmer. He's ready to bring on another youngster and is happy to give her a go and see if she'll suit him and his dogs. If things don't work out then she'll come back and at least I'll know if she has what it takes for stock work. Really upset but also crossing my fingers that this works out for her. As I have along the way I'll keep you guys updated, and once again I will thank you all for your help. It's been a hard time for me and I've really appreciated the support.

It's been pretty hard Monah I love her a lot and letting her go is really painful, but so much has changed from when I got her and I just don't think it's going to be fair on her to stay here. She's got such an active mind she needs to be properly challenged both mentally and physically. She'll make a great little working or sporting kelpie for someone and I think it would be selfish of me to prevent that when things are so wishy washy here.

Figured it was time to give this an update. After a lot of careful thinking over every option I decided to rehome my kelpie. A very tearful and heart wrenching choice but I think it will be for the best for both of us, she deserves so much more then what I can give her right now. Sadly (or should I say typically?) the man who bred her will not take her back. A number of excuses but basically there went the support I thought I had! I’m asking around hoping to find a local farm ready to bring on a young dog and I’ve dropped an enquiry with Australian Working Dog Rescue to see if they would have someone in a position to take her. Any other ideas? I don’t want this to drag on for months for both my dog and myself.

Thank-you everyone, I know I keep saying that a lot but I really mean it. You've all given me a lot to consider! I come from a non-dog family so your help and support has really been valuable. I've also been extended some lovely offers of help that have actually made me a bit sniffly. I'll be contacting her breeder just to see what our options are in that direction and I'll be having a real, honest think about the realities of our options. I've given myself the week to decide, it's a big and rather hard emotional choice and I want to make sure that I reach the one that is right for her. Thank-you again! I'll certainly update here when I decide.

I think if I tied one of the cats onto a stick I could catch her attention pretty easily! She is obssessed with them! Drive has been a constant issue for us, we've tried an array of different treats starting with dried things to raw, to lightly cooked to increadibly smelly. We've tried toys with not much success either. Best results have come from lots of attention when she gets it right, she really responds to a good rub and a "good girl!" I'll definetly keep working on her training while I'm making this choice, no matter what happens I want her to have the best life possible, she deserves it. "they think they are invincible, but can be incredibly dumb and smart at the same time." Woofen that sums up her current mind set so well! I'll go lurk in the training section for a few ideas to try with her to keep her brain occupied.

Thanks everyone, you're making me feel less horrid! I'll talk to the doc about speeding up somthing like an MRI for my knee and hopefully it all ends out less serious then it could be. As for my pup I'll make some enquiries on both my options, maybe one of them will suddenly and clearly become the best option once I get a bit further into it (I can hope right?)

Thanks for the replies kiesha I tested walking her with me on the tractor (very very small one!) but she kept getting too close to the wheels so we stopped that pretty quick. Jules to be totaly honest it is a hard question to answer. Do I want to keep her? My first response is with my heart which is a yes! But my first committment to her is to give her a life that fulfills her needs. When it was just training difficulties I never thought about rehoming her, I was comitted to working through them towards our goals. My knee is a big unknown at the moment, I have to do a few months of physio and if there is no improvment in that time frame (or if it gets worse) then I have to look at getting it MRIed and other treatment options that the doctor hasn't ruled out as going as far as a replacment. Really hard to work with an issue that doesn't have clear boundries but obviously I can't put off whatever choice I make for my pup until I know for sure what is going on with my knee. I worry that I cannot offer her a life that properly challenges her mind even if I can work off the energy. GoldenGirl thankyou, I will keep that in mind.

Okay, I hate dumping an issue like this on a forum but I have a rather large problem that I need outside perspective on, I and my family are too close to the whole thing! I have a nearly twelve month old farm bred kelpie pup that I was given three months ago. When I got her my aim was to build her up for herding, even getting a small flock of sheep for us to work (I live rurally.) Combining that with a walk and some off lead rambling and I figured I’d have that kelpie energy well managed. However, like all plans it seems, there is now a major hiccup. Just recently I was diagnosed with a potential knee problem. Currently I have minor pain when doing anything strenuous and this includes walking my own dog! At this point we have no idea of the long term effects of this but in the short term my doctor wants me to cut anything that causes pain. This includes walking my dog. I’ve had a few hiccups in her training which have meant she can’t go off lead, she has no recall and wants to chase my horses above all other things on the property. My two options are: Get a treadmill for my dog to work off her energy, continue to persevere through our training issues in the hope of getting her off lead and when her obedience has reached the required level start taking her fortnightly to a near-ish herding centre. Contact the farmer who bred her and see if, as he has always said he would, he can take her back and try and find her a more suitable home. Further info: She is an outside dog and not kept with other dogs, I had hoped to get her a friend but that option has been taken off the table now thanks to my knee. As mentioned above training progress has been slow as she is very easily distracted and shows no interest in food as a bribe. Do not misunderstand me, I love this dog. Despite her training issues she is a sweet dog and I really, truly love her. It is because of this that I wonder if this will be the right home for her? I’m trying to be as honest as possible because I need some honest advice on what is right for her. Please do not flame me, I already feel awful and should put my name up for the ‘cruddiest dog owner ever’ for considering this. So what should I do? What would you do? What is right for her?

You mean working dogs have an off button? I'd liek to know if kelpies have a "somwhere in the middle" button. If mine isn't lumping on her bed she is full speed ahead! Seems like another working breed or a terrier might be the go for her.

I'm guessing terriers are a good spot to look in. Corvus I'm guessing Erik is your vallhund? He is adorable! I see you have one of my other favourite breeds as well, I'd love a Lappie! A lot of my fav breeds seem to be hairy I do worry about escape risk. Given that my fences are dog mesh they aren't as sturdy as say a 6ft colourbond fence! I try to keep things interesting on the correct side of the fence. I rotate toys, Tannin loves her ramp up the verandah and I'm going to put in a sandpit to bury things in. If that doesn't work I can always hook it onto the electric fence ;)

I'd been considering a JRT. They and their crosses also seem to crop up in shelters a lot. They also seem to show up on a lot of horse properties so I've met some nice ones.

Okay I'm a long time off my next dog as I need to get the training working on my current one first but as I prefer to keep most animals in pairs I'm planning for the second dog. I love Shetland Sheepdogs but I'm thinking of staying away from fussy coats for awhile. Any dog here has to cope with a rather bouncy kelpie bitch and I'd really like a dog that would be up for a good play to help burn off some energy. I'd like to go a bit smaller then my kelpie and lower energy then her... without being so low that he won't want to play! I'd actually prefer a mature dog over a puppy and would be open to a stable rescue dog. As for enviroment I live rural but I don't let my dog roam. My dog has access to a mesh fence enclosure as well as a very large and well sheltered verandah. I'm already planning to extend the enclosure and when it reaches full size it will be about 1/4 acre. At night she goes away in her 'kennel' a kid's cubby house with her bed and blankets in it. I'd be open to putting in a second cubby for a second dog. Unfortunatly inside is not an option as I live with family and we have cats inside. That said I spend a fair amount of time outside and swim or walk my dog. Basically any dog I own needs to cope with the outside enviroment. I'm fairly open minded on breeds and types so happy to hear opinions.

I live rural and if my girl got out and got shot I would understand. I would be heartbroken but I wouldn't blame the farmer. I feel for you, but I also think you did the right thing.

Now if only people where as easy to train Thanks guys! I really want to do right by Tannin and I think I get a bit paranoid!