mita

I read of a US study which showed that, statistically, owners of dogs that had been involved in serious bites/attacks had a higher incidence of traffic violations (and they'd also highly likely not registered their dogs). Seems that impulsivity and lack of responsibility were at the base of these owners' approach to life. generally. So dog management tended to go the same way. I think there was also a significant chance they'd had criminal convictions of some kind. I'd like to see the AVA team up with people representing the (human) behavioral sciences to trawl the research literature on the characteristics/situations re dog owners who are at highest risk for their dogs being poorly managed in terms of excessively aggressive behaviour. To see if there'd be some earlier stage intervention. One step would be for the authorities to seriously check the situations where owners don't register their dogs. Apart from those people who genuinely can't afford the cost....there are higher risk owners in this group. So make one consequence of owning non-registered dogs that their dog must be behaviorally assessed. Even tho' the French still link potentially dangerous dogs with appearance....breed or 'appearance of'... they have a good system where such owners have to acquire a Certificate of Competency in handling their dog and also to take out 3rd party insurance, among other things. There's also some restrictions on how and where they can take their dogs.....once they've done all that & got a licence. Just change the starting point from breed, to actual assessed behaviours....and there's some value in this French system.

We have polished wood floors....and one room with carpet and a number of carpet mats. I've bought expensive carpet spot cleaner over the years and it's been as useful as water. Last week I bought some Woolworths homebrand (Select) carpet cleaner...label said it cleaned, helped remove grubby spots and deodorized. Only cheap....less than $5. Expected it to be even less useful. But it was brilliant. I sprayed it over the carpet and the carpet mats.....and gave special attention to the grubby spots. All came up like new. Next time, I'll put in a couple of drops of Nil-Odor to add even more to the deodorizing effect.

Wow for Teddy! Seem to fit the bill....has the sweetness and cuddles but also looks like a solid fellow.

I've already posted how the features in this incident fit the profile that research has uncovered about what's involved with dog bites....from the victim angle. This one is straight out of the textbook. And, yes, there's a gap between that knowledge and steps to prevention (not blame). My earlier (one) suggestion was that simple guidelines on what's involved in dog bites/attacks and simple rules to inculcate in (specially )children, their carers and owners of dogs, should be published and broadcast as part of the response to incidents. Your good point is asking if there's some government authority which would oversee things like that happening. I honestly don't know if there is. Should be, if not.

Yes.....and many years back, I was Joe Public....until that RSPCA Qld article told me where I could go and why. So it was education that informed me. When I got to those registered breeders, did they complete the job!!! Got invited to dog shows.....up to then, I didn't even know that the general public was welcome. You're right, one of the most common things I hear from many pet people is that they think only 'show-people' can buy from 'show-people'. They even believe that pet shops are where pet people should go to buy...like you go to the mower shop to buy a mower....sort of 'specialist ' sources. And, as you've said already, even if they find out they can go direct to breeders, they don't know how to find them. This is why I'd like to see that CHOICE page expanded and go into details like how to approach registered breeders and rescues....and what info to provide beforehand. And the guidelines spread as widely as possible....in non-animal selling pet supply stores, vet clinics....wherever. But all this alone won't solve the horrible problem.....as you & others have said, pet stores and internet sales make the puppies so accessible. And there'll always be heaps of people who want a puppy and they want it today.

Sorry for picking out just two items from your comments (all good for discussion, even if I don't always agree, so no yelling :) ). I think your comparison between a breeder's screening and adopting a child from Africa is extreme, and takes the focus off what's helpful for breeder, dog and consumer. Consumer education would include the fact that screening via interview questions protects all three. And, in fact, the 'educated' consumer would best approach the breeder with relevant information at the ready. My approach to registered breeders was to first email them a summary of that basic information. Not surprising that I've been well received as a potential owner and, as a result, all our pet tibbies have been ex-showdogs, and Aus Champions. Biggest problem :) was trying to get the breeders to take any money at all....the best of pet homes was all they wanted. Yep, they were made to take it. Consumer education would also include the fact that quality can be worth waiting for, from a quality source. My breed of interest is a less common one and I've experienced what quality means (in health, appearance, socialization and nature), and have cheerfully waited for some months until the right match came up. In every case, the breeder's match proved spot- on. Over the years, I've passed on my experiences and method for adopting from registered breeders to numbers of good people. They went the same route....and had very happy adoptions. Not to mention some awfully happy pets! How did I find out, many, many years ago, that I could go direct to a registered breeder and how to find them? RSPCA Qld, sickened by puppy farm consequences, put that in one of their newsletters.....and gave the phone no for the Canine Control Council of Q'ld. Added to make sure you knew exactly the circumstances in which the dogs were kept. To this day, I've kept a copy of that article which was about the horrors they'd seen in raids, along with graphic pictures.

Yes. I've always argued that the sale of puppies/dogs, and their breeding, is a double issue.....welfare and consumer. The Australian consumers' association, CHOICE, actually has a good webpage with guidelines on how to buy a puppy/dog. In a subtle way, they point people to registered breeders and ethical rescues. But even then, more specific guidelines on what to look for in those instances, would be helpful, for the general pet-buying public. http://www.choice.com.au/reviews-and-tests/household/backyard/pets/buying-a-dog.aspx But how many people would know to look up the CHOICE website? And then take it even further? Consumer education needs to be more widespread in its reach, and more specific in the guidelines.

Yes, that's a real problem. I read where one US state got mutual support by the 2 main political parties to crack down on puppy farming and their sales within the state. But they were then faced with internet sales by puppy farmers from other states.

Yes, yes and yes. Also agree with twodoggies, the newbie did what they thought best at the time. No point in picking over in hindsight.

PS, that was a great post.

There was a Tibbie Olympics held by the Tibetan Spaniel Association of Victoria, in April. All sorts of events with funny names, like the Derryn Hinch Award for Loudest Bark and Queen Mother Award for Oldest Competitor...& lots more. Entry was open to all tibbies...pet, show, rescue. Though show tibbies couldn't compete in Poser Award for Best Behaviour on Lead, as they might have an advantage. Gallery of pics & scroll down for list of events with pics of medal winners up on an Olympic style podium (complete with 'officials' carrying the medals on a plush cushion). http://www.tsavaustralia.com/olympics.htm

I like your work, Arcane. A great reality check. One of the experienced registered tibbie breeders (now retired) used to have a section on her website, called 'So You Think You Want to Breed with your Dog.' She then listed exactly the kinds of real situations you've described, complete with costs....and the emotional stresses involved and the unfortunate outcomes that can happen for the mother dog and puppies.

Padraic, I agree with you about the importance of education on the matter and would like to see a short set of guidelines always included in any report about children being bitten by dogs. Not as a blame game, or commentary on the particular case, but as awareness of how to try to prevent.

My Tibetan Spaniel girl, Angel, saved the life of a toddler. I was working in the back garden one Sunday afternoon. Angel was lying at the side gate, watching the passing parade outside. We live next to a bend in a suburban street that drivers use as a short-cut. Suddenly Angel started screaming in a way I'd never heard her do before or since. It spelled mortal danger. My first thought was that a snake had got her, so I came running. When I got to the gate, she was staring through the side fence, out onto the street. A toddler was standing in the middle of the road on the other side of the bend. I raced down, and picked her up. As we got to the footpath, a white van came speeding around the bend. If Angel hadn't given the alarm, the toddler would've been right in its path. I later found out that the toddler was visiting at the house over the road and had wandered out following a cat across the street. She'd then 'frozen' in the middle of the road. Angel's story was written up in our vet's newsletter. Here's a photo of Angel in her surveillance position at the side gate (click to enlarge): And this was Angel when not on gate duty:

I said in my post that a view on the situation can be made that has nothing to do with blame. But everything to do with awareness of how this case ticks every box for the statistical profile on who is most vulnerable to dog bites and how. Explanation of the dynamics in a situation is not blame. Amazing that this information has been available for some time, but it doesn't seem to have filtered into the public discourse. Yet it's the key to prevention, as far as humanly possible, via education and management. In reporting cases like this one, reference should be made to key criteria about children and dogs....not from a viewpoint of blaming, but of informing about vulnerabilities and management of them.

The basics of this case fits with the stats re who are most vulnerable to dog bites and how. Children up to age 8 yrs, especially boys...and high incidence of facial injuries. There are reasons underlying all that....right thro' to the high likelihood of serious facial injuries...children tend to put their face close to dogs, first because they're closer to the level of a dog and also their skin and facial tissues are not as 'tough' as an adult's. Seems in this case the boy put his head over the fence when there was a property guarding dog that had the jaw strength to cause really severe facial injury. And that fits with the more 'risky' behaviours that tends to be found in boys. Another statistical tick. No.....none of this is a matter of blame. It's an explanation of what lies behind the statistics, of which this case is a text-book example. General response should be, once again, to be aware of the particular dynamics between children and dogs. Caution with the most vulnerable age-group & dogs, and also teaching, especially the boys, to avoid risk-taking behaviours around dogs. BTW Also statistically, the other most vulnerable group is the elderly.

Great news! And looks like Ned has a good future. I agree that dogs can differ hugely from one home to another. Neighbours got their 1st tibbie boy from a home where he kept digging out and running away. From the first day he came next door, he never ever dug out again. Once, he was accidentally left outside the gate by a tradesman. He waited patiently next to the gate until his family came home (reported by an elderly neighbour). Dogs 'tune into' the behaviours of various homes. That tibbie boy voted with his paws where he wanted to be.

Thanks for the heads up, I didnt know it was illegal. Yes, thanks for the heads up. I then looked it up on the Reserve Bank website: http://www.rba.gov.au/banknotes/damaged/delib-damage.html

I never crate trained Lucy and this is something that pops into my mind. The groomer thing I have sorted as my groomers don't crate the dogs and I only ever book her in when I can pick her up immediately when she's done anyway. I'd look for some alternative to having my dog in a crate for 8 hours straight per day. We're lucky to have neighbours who also have a tibbie and we have a mutual arrangement that we give each others dogs a break out in the garden after every 3 hours....if owners are out. But, having said that, our dogs have a large crate that they can share (with their best mate, the cat) when it's necessary to keep them safe when work's been done and tradespeople going in and out. As ex-show dogs, they were made accustomed to that. I think that's the trick....training dogs to use crates so they become positive places to be. The RSPCA Qld dog behaviour unit sent me some excellent guidelines on how to do this. This kind of material should be circulated among pet owners because it explains how to 'crate' responsibly and happily (for the dog). And avoid any misuse. Re the fire angle.....I have one of those external notices that alert emergency services about the pets & where they are. My groomers have a great set-up, with a secure little courtyard behind the grooming room, for those littlies who like to socialise & play. My tibbie girl always bounces up out of the courtyard as soon as she hears my voice!

As I posted, someone did rescue & decide to keep the 3 tibbies in Sydney. It was a poster that said Sightings Welcome which led a person to report that 3 little dogs like the ones in the pic, had been acquired by his neighbout 3 weeks ago. The poster was being out up in a local service station. There's always the chance that your posters, flyers and notices reach someone who may have seen the little one. A papillon is a distinctive-looking little dog.....Angeline would stand out in people's eyes, just as the 3 little gold tibbies did. Fingers crossed that there's someone with information out there.

To be fair to you, you opened the thread more on the point of the extent of health issues in the Cav breed....and asked for discussion about that. As Jed & others commented it's a popular breed which has indeed led to a great deal of mindless breeding practice. With some dire results in terms of health and conformation....which basically you were picking up on. I hope the posts from the Cav breeders, who are on top of their game, has given you hope that quality effort still exists out there! :)

Your original question was if it's possible to find a Cav without health issues. Health problems are remarkably common across animal species....and not all are specifically genetic in origin. Many arise from the simple biology of being alive....and interacting with an environment (whether animal or human). Experienced Cav breeders have already given you the state-of-the-art position on specifically genetically acquired health issues in that breed. Makes sense then, for you to track down registered breeders who are on top of their game. I did that for both my breeds of interest and have generally OK health-wise purebreds as pets. They're not kelpies BTW.

Hmmm.. I've pondered this at times and really wouldn't you think humans would be a damn side more healthier than they are given the amount of "Hybrid Vigour" in our races? Nice one, LizT. :) In fact, the researcher praised the role that the controlled breeding in purebred dogs can have, in advancing knowledge that profits both canine and human medicine. Interesting quote from a review of 'Zoobiquity' "Cancer...is not just a modern disease caused by bad diet and environmental toxins but something found all over the animal kingdom, even in dinosuars. Wherever there is replicating DNA, there is the potential for harmful as well as adaptive random mutation.'

Me thinks a couple of readers were probably getting a bit excited for a moment, there :laugh: The thread subject line would indeed look odd...and totally unrealistic... if it referred to humans. 'Where could you find a human without health issues?' One difference in the purebred dog breeding world, is the nature of the decision-making for breeding with certain dogs....and also the shorter life- spans for the results to play out in lifetimes. I have an article from The Australian in which a researcher into human health at a leading Australian University, praised the process of purebred dog breeding as providing useful material for the work of his research centre. Why? Because many health problems are common to both humans and dogs. For the researcher, the problems are easier to track across depth and breadth of pedigree in dogs.....and the shorter life spans allowed them to see any genetic influences at work in what is controlled breeding. Interesting book just published, Zoobiquity: What Animals Can Teach Us About Being Human picks up the point that there's much to be gained from making connections between animal and human medicine (written by a cardiologist, Barbara Natterson Horowitz)). Apparently there's a joke that a doctor is just a vet who can only treat one species. :)

Yes, yes and yes. Imagine if products like cars could be made & sold by anyone who wanted to do it. No surprise, there'd be no semblance of established quality control.....and people plaintively asking, 'Is it possible to get a car that isn't inherently faulty?' The answer in the dog world, is to follow the trail of quality control set up by Kennel Club ethical guidelines and their members who have committment, experience and knowledge re their dogs. I think I read about a survey by the UK Kennel Club which found that pet people searching out registered breeders to buy from, tended to be well informed on what to look for and ask for. Note, that says 'tended'.....which means that not all did. So there's much room for education. Which a post like Jed's contributes hugely to. Interesting comment from the highly experienced groomer who 'does' my dogs. She said she can pick the purebreds that've come from registered breeders who are on top of their game. They stand out a mile, she said, on a number of criteria.