mita

There's also a wonderful book called 'M is for Mates' published by the Australian War Museum. It's been brilliantly researched & shows all kinds of animals alongside Australian soldiers, sailors & airmen. Loads of dogs, of course. The animals might be doing some work....from carrying messages in WW 1 right up to the Explosive Detector Dogs, like Herbie, in Afghanistan. Or they might be pets or mascots. My favourite is a pretty young puss who was the mascot of the Air Training School....& had permission to wear the official wings insignia on his collar. Just like a pilot would. The book was originally intended for children but is so interesting, factual & full of great photos that adults love it! http://www.awm.gov.au/shop/item/9781877007392/

ESCS, at least burglars accompanied by dogs, will now know to avoid your house. When our 2 Tibbies alerted me there was a burglar coming in the back deck, they didn't so much bark as give that loud, deep growl which shows when a dog scents real danger. And means business. They were right! They're tolerant of the possums.....they just seem to think they're another version of Sarah the cat. But Tibbie, Lily next door (who we think is a Kissing Cousin of your boy) tells them to 'Go!'.

I have no problem with debarking being a regulated procedure, so long as the process simply comes down to a fairly stated request by an owner and the professional judgment of an experienced vet. But I have a real problem with the Victorian law which puts huge barriers in the way of simply getting down to the merits of an individual case. Which should be just a matter between owner & vet.

Moselle, you skated over the critical sentence in my post about the Qld system: The process (Q'd) doesn't spell out what attempts must be made to stop the barking by other means. There is no mention in this law about EVERYTHING must be tried. There is NO huge prescribed list. I even mentioned that the attempts would depend on the circumstances of each case. Like, no one would be expected to build massive sound-proof walls....or undertake anything that they clearly could not afford. As I've said, I worked thro' that process with an experienced vet....& there was only mention of managing in the existing home environment, not undertaking building. As to behavior management, we simply discussed the basics of what I was already doing. Which was judged fine. The only new thing mentioned, was giving a try to a new medication (as a temporary measure). Fortunately, the problem was solved. Only costs to me, were 2 consultations plus one prescription. Hardly $100. The Victorian system looks far more prescriptive & involves more 'outside' people. The Qld system is a matter between the treating vet & the owner. I think the Qld one is far more balanced. I got the impression, from talking with the treating vet, that most people who finally take their dogs to him asking for the debarking operation, have already done the best they can...on their own bat... in serious circumstances anyway. The thing that made my case a bit more sensitive to making sure that other options had been given a fair shot....was that my dog was a 'senior', small, short-nosed dog (where there's caution about putting it under an anaesthetic).

Go look at the gorgeous photo, DOLer, JulesCavs' husband took at the service for Herbie. Great account from an eye-witness: http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...p;#entry4632659

The Qld law on debarking has stages which must be worked thro'....but it comes down to information provided to the treating vet, who has to make a professional judgment. Here's the 2 source options for that, either the owner has got a noise abatement order from the council, or the owner's initiating steps to ask for the operation: [1] A nuisance abatement notice under the Environmental Protection Act 1994 or equivalent OR [2]an appropriate notice... signed by each owner of the dog asking the veterinary surgeon to perform the operation and stating that the dog's barking is a nuisance, that attempts have been made and unsuccessful (for each attempt the nature of the attempt); and enough details of the attempt to allow the veterinary surgeon to form a view. When the owners take the initiative, as in 2, there's no need to gather any written complaints from neighbours. Which is sensible, given these may not be approachable or cooperative people. And also the owners themselves may be the main people who are badly affected by the barking. The process doesn't spell out what attempts must be made to stop the barking by other means. That makes sense because they would depend on the circumstances. When I took a dog to the skilled vet here, it actually was a good learning experience. After we discussed the reasons for the barking & what had been done, he then suggested trying medication once more. Turned out to be one that humans use & I had to get it from the chemist. In the end, the operation was not needed. But, in many cases it is. I thought it was a well balanced system they've come up with. Balances the welfare of the dog, with the welfare of the owners & the people living nearby. And puts the decision-making on the professionalism of the vet & the cooperation of the owner.

Peninsula Animal Aid? Great people. I've only ever had positive, prompt & straight-talking contacts with them. They deserve heaps of support. So glad the puppies got a perfect bill of health from the vet. By the way, it was PAA which rescued, from Redcliffe Pound, Herbie the late Army Explosives Detector Dog.

Oh, that photo is beautiful! Your cavs are gorgeous....very fitting participants in a service for Handsome Herbie.

Whoever drew up the animal cruelty laws in Victoria, had a vocabulary problem. Debarking is labelled a prohibited procedure in that legislation. But the same legislation describes the circumstances/conditions/process for when it is permitted in Victoria. Which means it's a regulated procedure....& here's the exacting process set out: http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/dpi/nrenfa.nsf/c...rinter+Friendly The Q'ld law just describes debarking as a regulated procedure....& sets out the conditions and process which apply here.

I was a bit tempted to get debarked (pitch-lowered) myself after learning that the 2 tibs I thought had sexy voices, had been debarked. But it has to be done by a skilled & experienced vet...as they were.

Thanks for the update, JC. Sounds like a very moving service for Herbie. And the dogs attending seemed to capture the spirit. Look forward to the pics. I hope they plan something for the War Dog Memorial beside the sea at Alexandra Headland in Qld. Herbie should be honoured in his home state. Last Friday, friends had to attend a function in the Clontarf/Redcliffe area where he was recruited by the army. They said they were going to 'Herbie Country'.

That's right. Herbie was rescued from Redcliffe Pound by Peninsula Animal Aid. That's a lovely idea to give a donation to PAA in memory of Herbie. By the way, if you live in South Australia, there'll be a Memorial Service for Herbie, tomorrow, at the Australian War Dogs Memorial which is located there. All people attending are invited to bring their dogs. The notice with time & place was in the thread on General.....

You're right....notions of 'unclean' tend to peter out or get watered down as new knowledge comes to hand. Or under the influence of other cultures. For all those reasons, there's huge variety across people who practice the Islamic faith, in regard to attitude about dogs. In this modern world. Right from the fundamentalism of the bloke speaking out from Iran (where obviously a heck of a lot of people don't share his view of dogs), right thro' to the US Islamic scholar who loves his rescued dogs.) The 'beliefs' often started in the mist of time in contexts where there was no scientific tradition to question them....& they were thought to have some connection with health & hygiene.

Pipsal, there's very good advice from other people. And I agree with the comments about the super-negative vet. If his scenario was followed, no dog or puppy would ever be rescued. Just adding, would you consider getting to one of the AWL Qld Vet Clinics. They're connected, of course, with the AWL Qld Shelter. There you might get both needs covered....the puppies given their vet needs & the shelter taking them on for adoption. AWL's motto is working towards zero, so they give puppies & dogs taken in, a very good go. One AWL clinic is in Ipswich & the other is on the site of their shelter on the northern end of the Gold Coast. Both clinics can be accessed by the general public. Let me know if you want the phone numbers to make enquiries. You've done the best possible for those puppies & your deserve support in getting them towards a good future.

When the operation is done by an experienced & skilled vet, the dog's high frequency pitch sounds are lowered. Leaving the dog with a lower voice where the sound doesn't carry as much. First time I met two bark-lowered dogs, I just thought they had sexy voices which were pleasant on the ear. Owners had to tell me they'd had the operation, because of noise complaints in suburbia that couldn't be solved any other way. Human beings can have the pitch of their voices lowered, too....except it's done by speech therapy & training. Like, some women who have to speak a lot in public life....newsreaders & politicians....have such training. Margaret Thatcher's 'natural' high pitched voice which was described by one of her colleagues, as capable of killing passing sparrows....led her to have pitch-lowering training. The Qld law on debarking (pitch-lowering) is sensible. It requires the owner to cooperate with alternative strategies first....like medication, training & management. Only when all fails & euthing faces the dog, can the operation be performed. I once took a dog to the experienced vet here, to work thro' that process.....& he was fantastic. He had great recommendations for medication & for behaviour modification referral. Which worked....so no need to proceed to the operation. It was all done in both the letter & spirit of the sensible law.

I think it's an excellent idea. It gives the emergency services team, information they need. They're trained, experienced professionals who then make the call on what action to take.

Re Greys as guard dogs. Our neighbour, Laurie, who owns greys himself, had to call at the home of an elderly lady. When she opened the door, there beside her, was a magnificent big greyhound. Apparently a relative is connected with greyhound racing... & arranged for a failed racer with a lovely nature to become her pet. No worries about her tripping over a small dog & she could pat him from her chair or her bed. She could also use the big calm boy as something to lean on. Best of all, his size immediately intimidated people who might not have good intentions....but who knew nothing about greys. Laurie said he himself who owns greys, took a step backward when the door opened. Because the last thing he expected was a large dog to appear beside the elderly lady. Altogether, it was a match made in heaven, for both of them. The lady's family attended to bathing or vet trips and taking the boy for exercise

Yes, great to look forward to the results of human trials....with the hope the drug works well there, too. And great to know that it'll soon be available throughout vet medicine. I looked at the EcoBiotics website & found this: http://www.ecobiotics.com.au/clinical-trials.htm

I'll give you another opportunity to cringe. We've just given our annual donatiion to RSPCA Qld....& to AWL Qld. Yes, & we support local rescues as well. So glad the man got Charlie back safe & well. Very decent people who found him, to waive a reward.

Yes, put black weed matting plastic all along the fence. So the dogs can't eyeball each other, which is what leads to the barking 'attack'. In addition, chicken wire can be pegged on the ground along the fenceline so dogs won't walk over it to sniff & snuff out dogs on the other side. Also....see if the neighbours would allow for some controlled socialisation between their dogs & yours. Like walking together on leads etc. Reduces the sense of 'enemy'.

Our neighbour says his greyhounds' philosophy of life can be summed up in one word...'Whatever!'

We've lived next door, for ages, to a man who owns some racing greyhounds & also owns a retired one & some time back, a rescue one. He loves his greys....& it shows. Greys are the loveliest dogs...with every quality that made you fall in love with the one you met. Calm, soft, loving, no trouble at all. With the most beautiful eyes! Our little tibbie girl became the small dog tester for GAP....but I had to ask would she be a 'good' tester, because she adored the greys next door. She specially loved Boofy a sweet, big fellow rescued by our neighbour when he couldn't race well. He sadly died under anaesthetic when being desexed. Our little dog's grief was awful. She'd wait for him at the fence every morning....& couldn't understand why he wouldn't come. By the way, all the greyhounds I saw being tested by GAP were brilliant dogs....all with the lovely qualities of the breed. I could have taken them home myself. Our little 'tester' tibbie would be heartbroken after each test.....when her new 'friend' would get into another car.

Do you foster people, too? Sounds like winter heaven at your place.

Me, too, JC, can only find mention of the site in Goolwa....but not exactly where. BUT i did find the Forum on the Army Trackers & War Dogs Association website, where the men who are organising the ceremony, give the details. I went all blubbery when they said the community are welcome to bring their pet dogs to celebrate Herbie's life. Says they'll probably have refreshments later at the local RSL....so good advice to phone RSL Goolwa & ask for actual location. Or it seems the forum is open to public, could ask there. Also looks like people not able to go the the Goolwa service, can leave a tribute to Herbie on that forum....somebody already has. http://www.aussiewardogs.org/node/115

Have you googled Australian Army Trackers & War Dogs Association? For Queenslanders, there's a War Dogs Memorial on the walking track beside the ocean at Alexandra Headland, on the Sunshine Coast. I don't know if a ceremony is planned there, too. Herbie was a Qld dog, originally rescued from Redcliffe Pound. He & his handler were based at the Enoggera Barracks here. Herbie's collar was placed with his master's slouch hat on the coffin at the funeral. Also the Brisbane News said Herbie will be cremated in Afghanistan & his ashes given to his master's widow. Here's the Qld memorial....which has a water bowl built in for passing dogs to have a drink.