mita

Me, too.

Because simply there shouldn't be a difference between show and working lines, let alone then creating a pet line!!!! Yes, the fact is that all dogs.....working, pet or show....are companions to people. So the socialisation required to live/work alongside humans is critical for every dog. Look at the Military dogs being bred, raised & trained at Amberley in Qld. The process by which they're raised is exactly the process which needs to be followed for each & every dog to go on to live alongside people. First, the 'Military' puppies are bred from well-selected GSD dogs. Then, right from birth, they're handled by people. As young puppies, they live the life of happy little chappies around the base. The program director said he often has to detach a puppy from swinging on a passing lady's skirt! Then, at about 4 months, the puppies go out to live with families (many with children) in the civilian world. They're treated like any family companion pet....& go on outings with their family, to the beach, to the football. Wherever. After having such a great base in socialisation to be beside people.....all people....they return to the base for their training as military dogs, to be assigned to a handler. So where is all this nonsense coming from.....that it's a totally separate venture to breed & raise pets? If any of those military dogs fail their specialist program....look what remains, a dog beautifully socialised as a pet. And where do many of these service & police dogs live? At home with their handlers' family. My suspicion is that it relates less to knowledge about dogs (& purebreds, in particular). But more to beefing up a commercial market.....where a false consumer dream is peddled as the benchmark. 'Buy your ideal pet dog here! And only here. We're the only pet dog builders!'

Ive been having a look the Rule book in under Member info, New Member Info Thanks for that. Shall go look.....that is, if a non-Member, pet person can access the Members' Info.

I agree, Russkie. The best thing is for the CCs, like DogsQld, to provide the information on what the advantages are.....to dog & owner....of getting a purebred from a registered breeder. Advantages that don't come from buying from petshops or over the Net or from dd sources. But I can't find the code of behaviour & conduct on the new website. There are great sections on that, which show why.

Thanks for this heads up. The old website used to have, somewhere, the code of ethics for their breeders. And sections of that were blooming brilliant & I was always pointing pet owners to them. But, in recent times, I couldn't find them.

Exactly. The registration process re purebreds allows people to track parent dogs.....& their litter mates (breadth of breeding) as well as previous litters & parents/grandparents. All is documented....& breeders and owners are traceable. All of this, is not just a matter of interest for prospective or new buyers searching out temperamental & health & conformation factors. This is also how intervention for any problems can be targeted. For example, a prominent researcher on Hip Dysplasia recommends.....when making breeding decisions.....that the littermates of proposed parent dogs be tracked & checked, not only the parents & grandparents. So the registration process is worth its weight in gold....to both pet owners & breeders. Which represents value for money when buying a puppy directly from a registered breeder who lives up to a code of ethics & is committed to developing the breed.

Yes.....as you say 'your view'.

Isn't Boof beautiful! I bet the creep who harmed him will fall foul of the law in WA, for something else.

When I was googling for the cost of the op yesterday most of what I read suggested that it was thought to be inherited. I imagine that it would be similar to liver shunt in that it can occur spontanously in some dogs but can be genetic in others? I've not got vet or medical expertise. But I, too, thought it was the same as for humans. How heart murmurs can occur spontaneously & are not necessarily always genetic.

Really....where did the 'you all' come from? If you believe that a whole heap of people are exactly the same....in a prejudical way....then what you're coming up with is a prejudice. And why do you use the word 'elite' as if it means something bad? It's a word that gets used in many spheres of human actiivity to denote possession of top skills. I've made sure, that as a pet person, I've had dealings with registered breeders whose values I admire....like loving their breed & their own animals above all. And I've pointed out earlier, how I took delivery last week of a tibbie from a breeder like that.....with the best of European bloodlines behind her....& I had to insist that this person take payment. Any payment. The best of homes is all she wanted for the little dog. And daily emails come from her, appreciating all the news about the settling in & asking for cuddles to be passed on. It's been the same with every adult tibbie I've got from top registered breeders (you know possessing top skills does mark someone out as part of an elite). Money was the last thing on their mind.....only a good home. Each time, I've insisted that they take money.

Yes, you do have to be mightly careful re the venom of cane toads & how it can kill pets. Someone once posted here, how their dog was frothing when a toad unloaded in its mouth. With presence of mind, the owner hosed the dog's mouth.....from the back & side (so not pushing the stuff down the throat). Others have given good ideas. I've always found it helps to use the same toilet spot, in a well-lighted area....& first sussed out for any nearby toads, by doing a lot of banging & crashing with a rake. And also use a long light lead, so the dogs can't rush off exploring in other places. Once, when I was specially paranoid, I put a ring of salt around the spot (I'd heard toads don't like salt & wouldn't cross). Of course, it can & did rain!

So what's different from the registered breeders of purebreds who are not members of this Pet Breeders' Association? For example, go look thro' the listings of tibetan spaniel breeders on Dogzonline Breed Pages....& see what they have to say about what they're doing. The health, temperament & beauty of the breed are all in their goals. Similar goals expressed re other breeds. What the good registered breeders of purebreds need to do, is get their act up into the face of the public. Accurate info needs to be got out there, how purebreds are contributing to the community as excellent companion pets. Seems to me, the bandwagon's been discovered (for better or worse) that there's a commercial market out there for pet dogs based on certain consumer expectations. And the Pet Breeders' Association is seizing that market in its public charter. But where's the public charter for the far more well established breeding programs of the registered breeders? There needs to be a Purebreds In the Community component to the world of showing purebreds. Anyone who heard, on radio National, the person speaking on behalf of DOGS Vic pet therapy team, would have learned a lot about the value of soundly bred & well raised & socialised purebreds. Pity this kind of story doesn't get on to the commercial TV stations. I'd be guessing because it's light years away from commercialism.

That's fine, SP. I get what you're saying. It does make you mad that a 'regulation' offence would be 'up there' with appalling cruelty, in terms of punishment. Gee, I'd be looking to ban that puppy farmer from owning dogs for life!

I heard that, too. And was stunned. I'd expect someone who'd offended to that horrendous degree would be banned from owning dogs for a lengthy period....or, better still, for life. But I don't know if NSW law allows for that. I'd expect if she moves interstate, she'd then be subject to a different law.

Thank for that explanation. Was there any further information given about the 15 PTS? To arrive at some judgement. It certainly doesn't harm Joe Public to know that severe behavioral problems due to lack of socialisation can also face a dog with PTS.

Judy's position is even worse because it doesn't relate to her dogs being in distress or disabled (as it says in the Victorian law). Hers is an 'offence' about regulation under a law that doesn't have the grasp of English to describe debarking as a regulated procedure A procedure that's OK under the same law.. And has inbuilt discrimination against show dogs. If ever a law needs to be rewritten, that one does. I'd say that animal welfare laws.....in respect of puppy farming....should be far more monitored by the Dpt of Primary Industries whose Minister is responsible for them anyway. So Primary Industry Inspectors in the field should be able to act early re any source from which puppies are sold. That's another lesson I'd hope Joe Public would get from the program....asking questions how such places can develop to such an appalling state, in the first instance.

What signs did you see that led you to that conclusion? I'm no expert on behaviour, but I found it interesting. I have no idea who 'the other dogs' were. It highlighted the fact that dogs face being PTS as a result of puppy farming.....with socialisation issues being up there as bad as lack of physical care. Such a change to hear the word 'socialisation' appearing in media accounts.

I was glad to hear the inspector say that the lack of socialisation which goes into puppy farm dogs, is up there with neglect as a huge problem. And showing the outcomes....dogs with signs of extreme fear around humans. It was also good that they showed the intense rehabilitation that has to be put into such dogs.....while hoping to god, it works. I was interested in the specialist carer's work with the standard poodle & the huge progress he made. From being terrified witless, to being a biddable & happy dog. It was interesting how that carer explained the use of a training belt & rewarding the dog for walking beside her around the house. I also liked the way the inspectors emphasized the ignorance of just letting dogs mate, with no decisions about selections or numbers of litters. The public needs heaps more education of that kind. So they learn that 'idea' companion dogs have to be developed by responsible people who know what they're doing re selection for breeding & socialisation....as well as physical care. And the public needs to know that dogs that have been failed across all of those, can be in such a state that they're PTS. Most of all the public needs to reflect on the fact that, if they don't check the actual source & circumstances, when buying a puppy.....they could be buying a puppy produced in horror conditions like this.

Excellent suggestion about the crate....& cover view of the traffic. I'd pop one of the huge dried chewy thingies in the crate with him, so he can be kept busy. Or a kong stuffed with kibble. And what sas said, re checking with a behaviorist if there's any other way, out of the crate. Like behaviorists have helped turn working breeds off trying to organise the moving mower. So true about his breed.....while you're driving to work, he's starting work organising the moving traffic. Also great advice to channel his fantastic working drive via activities where he can let it rip. He'll make you proud when trained for such activities.

Mr Darling needs to do some reflecting on his own position re the Victorian legislation that enables the RSPCA to do what they do. The law speaks of the activities carried out.....as The Minister directs. So actions sheet home to that Minister. This seems to be constantly overlooked that the law already sheets reponsibility home to a State Government Dpt. Some moneys from that Dpt's budget get paid to the RSPCA to act on behalf of the Minister. But, as the Judicial Review Act in Qld indicates, even a body partly paid from the budget set by Parliament... bears the same responsibility as a government dpt. And, theoretically, open to the same system of checks & balances. There's been a running theme in DOL posts that the State Government should follow the already existing direction of the animal cruelty/neglect legislation... & take up the full responsibility for enforcement of that law. In recent times, the CEO RSPCA Qld has publicly said so, too. Bit O/T. But I've just been looking at the position in Sweden (granted a smaller & more closely settled country than Australia). They have administrative boards in the various areas to receive complaints re animal cruelty/abuse. And police officers are sent to enforce.....& even seize animals. Interesting to know how other countries manage the enforcement of animal cruelty/abuse/neglect laws.

It's already been noted that a 'seminar' showcases the direction of studies in a university department. By the way, presenting a paper at a seminar does not meet 'publish or perish' requirements. Getting the research paper published in a peer-reviewed journal meets that requirement. I've made my thoughts clear about the kind of language being used in an academic setting. The notion of ideal being pursued in a scientific study . I notice, after my pointing that out, the word ideal's been placed in inverted commas... 'ideal'... thus compounding the issue. By implying that ideal is being used, but not in its usual sense. Language in scientific studies must be clear & indicate phenomena that are open to observation & measurement. Vague terms, which might have a place in philosophy, don't lend themselves to that. The link they've tried to make is with the results of a survey where Australians nominated their idea about the kind of dog they'd like. Which are actually perceptions of reality. Not, reality. Yet this study makes a leap from those perceptions....past testing them against reality... to a notion of ideal. Also this university seminar includes a presentation by a person who is breeding crossbreeds....cavs & beagles....based on notions like a dog with a shorter nose, will less go sniffing around. Making it more user-friendly for pet owners. Frankly, that person can entertain whatever notions she likes. BUT there are requirements of scholarship when a notion is being presented in a university setting. 'Just seems like a good idea ', is not sufficient. A rationale for the idea is required....& that means showing that there's sufficient in the published research literature so far, for that notion to be reasonable to investigate & measure. If the presentation about the cross-breeding does not proceed from such a rationale....what's it doing in a university seminar? Academic freedom does not mean freedom from the requirements of scholarship.

Rosie, re the ad looking for a small female dog, any chance you could call the people & tell them about the PetRescue site? Quite a few small, female dogs listed for adoption in WA. http://www.petrescue.com.au/search/?a=d&am...;l=wa&a_id= You're right the free-to-good-home ads are a worry because there's not much standing in the way of impulsively grabbing a dog 'for nothing'. I'm trying to figure out who to tell about the FTGH Tibbie girl in WA. There's not a Tibbie Club there. Only bright spot, looks like the Chi & the Tibbie are desexed.

I've always liked the info on this site. Mainly because it talks about getting the dog ready, months before the baby comes. Like, in really getting the dog's training up to speed. Also, over the long period, reducing the type of attention the dog gets. So there's not a sudden displacement by the baby. http://www.dogclub.co.uk/advice/babyanddog.php

Good point. PETA tends to be more reactionary, based on their already-existing belief system. It sure sticks out a mile in relation to companion animals. Totally reactive there. So it's reasonable to identify issues with other animals being used for human purposes, but still a way to go re any improved welfare options. The more I hear about PETA, the more they seem to position themselves as an organisational cattle-prod (ironic metaphor there ). More on getting reactions, as if that's enough. And confusing reaction with solution.