Casima

We went alittle late today, partly the heat and partly I got a bit sidetracked with some training and lost track of the time Day 4 - 45 mins run/swim/fetch with a small walk at the park.

Uneven training here too, Anna gets the most, she is so much fun to train she is super at shaping and so keen to turn herself inside out earning whatever treats I have and also as the youngest who is still learning all her agility skills. Raffy gets some training, mostly just keeping his agility skills fresh as he is pretty hard to teach anything to (getting better tho) so he only gets a turn at non agility stuff when I am feeling super patient. Benny was my broken dog, too much badly done obedience training when he was younger made him rather dislike working except for shaping, however I think many years of good training is undoing the bad start we had and he is really enjoying working now, so much so I have entered him in his first ever agility trial at the end of the month! I also have been considering re trying him with obedience to see if we can finish off that CD we started 5 years ago he has one qually! I took him through a heel routine earlier and he remembers it pretty well and was so keen :D maybe an obedience trial is in his future too

*raises hand* I am going to some of the Vic seminar days with Anna, can't wait! Susan Garrett and her Say Yes program is awesome!! and I have heard great things about Lynda :D

I think I will join in here. I have been feeling really sick for the last 6+ weeks and it doesn't look like I will be any better anytime soon. My poor dogs have been missing alot of walks because I've just felt too lousy, we used to go pretty much every day but they have been lucky to go twice a week lately. So I have 3 crazy active dogs at home climbing the walls Due to the heat I try to get to the park about 1 hour before sunset and leave once its dark. I cheated and read this thread and started before I posted to see if I could do it first From last wednesday onwards I am going to take my dogs to the park for about an hour every day (except in bad weather) no matter how lousy I feel! if I feel sick I can just sit on the seat and throw a ball, if I feel ok we can walk. And as incentive to make sure I don't wuss out, any day where I don't end up going for whatever reason other than weather, I will take them for a walk on leash in the street instead even if it ends up being after dark (ugh, walking 3 big high drive high energy dogs on leash at once isn't very much fun so its a good reason to get off my butt and go to the park!) Day 1 - Wednesday - 1 hour walk at park Day 2 - Thurs- 1 hour ball fetch and swim at park Day 3 - Friday - 1 hour walk at park much happier more settled dogs at home now

Happy Birthday to my most favorite Dobe Rex!! he is still so very handsome, I hope he enjoyed his birthday feast

Hi Pip, my Raffy wears a nylon collar the same shape as a rolled leather one (round instead of normal flat) and I find it keeps his coat much nicer than a flat collar, not much collar mark at all, although he goes nekkid when at home. I haven't tryed a leather one on him but I assume it would work just as well P.S Raffy has a long double coat but not as much as a Sammie

There seems to be a large proportion of the general public who see rewarding a dog as cheating and that your dog isn't well trained unless it obeys just because. They are usually the same people you see yelling at their dogs constantly or with totally untrained dogs and when you suggest to them that they don't pay their dogs enough they come back with some comment along the lines of they are the boss and their dog should do everything they want, no respect for the poor dog, I bet they don't go to work themselves for no pay, just because the boss is the boss and most times their dogs arn't silly enough to work for nothing either. Keep up the training in public, even tho there are idiots out there, somtimes you inspire people to try rewarding their dogs more often

I try not to feed my dogs before agility training/trialling unless they have a few hours digestion time as I worry about bloat, otherwise its not an issue as most of our rewards are toys and they are skinny hungry dogs all the time. Does he have steady feet when you bring food towards him from all directions no matter where you are standing? You need this before commencing walking around him. Must also ask if you have a release word? From there you progress to food on the ground, food being thrown past the dog, toys being dropped and thrown, then not moving to oppositional reflex, then introduce people walking in. If he can not move after all this - then walking around him should be a breeze Thanks guys for more info on the steady feet game! we did alittle yesterday and today, I ended up putting her up on a high table to start with so I could see her feet better, and was still getting alittle back foot movment, however we seem to have fixed it with some well timed reward removal combined with gently replacing her moved foot by hand, she seems to be aware of those back feet now and I can't get her to move them no matter what I do with treats so I will move on to some of your other proofing suggestions now before working on distance and more exciting distractions. Great stuff!! thanks guys

Yep thats the idea, although the target doesn't have to big enough to fit the whole dog on, infact probably better if it isn't as the criteria for performance would change once it got too small for the dog to lie on. I used a green face washer for one of mine and he would position himself so that the target was between his front legs when he dropped, then folded it smaller, but it would be better if you could use some cloth or something that can be then cut up (green shopping bag material works well if you have an old one that you don't mind ruining) Also once the target is quite small you can start to cover it over with some grass to help eliminate it completly. When still in the shaping phase, if the dog dropped in the wrong spot I tended to just wait them out, once they didn't get rewarded you could see the little wheels turning in their head as to what they should be doing, and after alittle while they would look over and see the target and move to it. However for obedience dogs perhaps that might play havoc with their stay training, so a NRM and a reset might suit you better? I guess it depends on how much shaping experience you and your dogs have and if they will differenciate breaking their offered down to breaking an actual stay. Sorry it is her Stand stays that are the problem sit stays are fine. For agility we have been using sits so we don't practise bad stands. I will try your steady feet game in a stand and see how we go, perhaps I am subconsiously wanting her to stay too much and I need to test her some more. Thanks ;)

Hi Ptolomy, love your Tollers!! Agility person here, but you did say anyone can chime in. Have you tryed teaching her to drop on a target to fix this? rather than giving her a barrier to avoid it will give her something to aim for, I find this sort of training gives the dog a better understanding of what you really want and is much easier to fade sucessfully than barriers. I would start from the beginning and free shape her to go to and drop on the target, make sure reward is given while in position, this should help her understand that the location of her drop is important, add your cue and then once you have proofed that to a few locations, position her for the COP on the target and practise it with the target for a long while before fading. With all the reinforcement for dropping you will have to do lots of rewarding for not anticipating especially while the target is still there. Try to use a target that is not too big of a visual cue for the dog to make it easier to fade. Here is one of my problems. I've been trying to teach my young dog a good solid stand stay, which she does well except that she has a tendancy to move one or both her back feet alittle, like she is shifting her weight or something. I've only taken it to the stage where I will reward her very very often and only move 1-2 meters away from her max, continually stuffing treats in her face, I've added some distractions also, generally her foot movment occurs when I am near her and doesn't seem to have anything to do with distractions. I've tryed very hard to only reward her stays up until the point she moves a foot, resetting her once she moves but no improvment, I don't think she is aware she is doing it. She is training for agility and I have done alot of rear end awareness work with her already (ladder work, standing in her water bowl, perch work, 2o2o contact training, walking on her hind legs and early handstand work) but we have hit a bit of a wall and I don't know how to fix this. Any suggestions?

Hi Mym, how big is the box? I've found with this type behaviour its easiest for the dog if you start with a really big box that they can easily just get on, once they get that idea in their mind, then shrink it down some so they have to work their back legs alittle more, don't make the box too small too fast but once they get good they can learn to stand on something really small.

Sounds like my GSD, he runs towards thunder/fireworks barking trying to scare it away and has taught my other dogs to do this too :D at least it seems to be better (but noisier) than if they were all terrifyed of storms. No idea how to shut them up tho

Where do you reward your dog? if the rewards are always by your side (very easy to do with a food dog) then the dog isn't going to see much of a reason to drive on ahead make sure you have a way to throw a reward ahead to your dog if you don't already. If you do already reward by throwing ahead, have a look at your timing, if the dog has time to turn back and look at you before you reward you need to throw sooner. The first send I have taught all my dogs was a simple send to tunnel, I start close and make sure I have a reward that I can throw so the dog can get it as soon as they exit the tunnel, I do this when I am standing still (never had a problem when I have added movement once sequencing) and slowly increase distance to the entrance to the tunnel, don't go to fast you want to build lots of value for the behaviour. Once we are far enough away I put a jump in the dogs path and keep increasing to 2 or 3 jumps before the tunnel (I don't verbally cue the jumps, for my dogs I want them to automatically do all jumps in their path) always throwing the reward to the tunnel exit. (Once my dog gets keen on the tunnel sends I throw in the odd call off also and reward that too so I hopefully don't end up with a tunnel monster) The second send I teach is a straight line of jumps, we start running together and I keep running straight with my focus ahead and same speed like I was handling a course, once the dog is commited to the last jump I throw the reward forward in front of the dog, start with less jumps and work up to more and more when the dog is predicting reward and driving ahead. Like the tunnel send once my dog is getting good at it I will throw in the odd turn cue (can be a deceleration, rear cross or jump wrap front cross.) and reward for those so the dog doesn't learn to ignore my handling when presented with a line of jumps. I don't really need a verbal cue to get my dog doing this, my running parallel to the dog is enough, but sometimes I will add in a "go go" cue. Like Vickie said, rear crosses are very useful when you are level with your dog too and I use different handling to her :D

Cool, I was looking for something doggy to do as I might be stuck with nothing to do in Sydney on Sunday, thanks! might see you all there

Anyone know anything about the dock dog selections?

A little late here, but I am planning on entering my Raffy in the Sydney one in August, more for my benefit than his I doubt he will need much fitness traning but I sure do!

Ah excellent, if you do go let me know and they can measure Miss Anna at the same time P.S make sure you bring his and your rego number etc

Measuring after trials seems strange, since the judges are all signing cards then doing presentations and are usually eager to go home. I will have to keep my eyes open for dog measuring myself, Anna will be old enough by our next trial and need doing too. Have you emailed Manly's trial secretary to let them know you might come for measuring? it might just be one club that is doing after trial measuring?

I know most people just enter and make a note to the trial secretary that they need to be measured, Raffy didn't end up being measured until his 3rd ANKC trial because the judges were always busy or the club doesn't have any official cards etc, try to turn up early and tell them he needs measuring because they wont always remember the note you send. If you train at a club with judges you might be able to get him measured at training officially? not sure but I think I remember them telling me that is what I should have done (no ANKC judges at my club tho) or sometimes they will measure during lunch apparently too. (not sure if the judges like this option.) Enter "JD" or if there is room you can put novice jumping. There are NSW agility forms you can fill in on your computer and print which is much easier than handwriting single forms, especially once you get to enter more events. PM me your email adress and I can email you the file if you need it.

I am sorry to read this :rolleyes: I officially gave up on my GSD boy too, he just wasn't fun to seriously train for competition like my others are, so he just gets to do the things he enjoys now and hes happier, he loves walks, car rides, going to the park, spectating at agility and free shaping random pointless tricks, never any pressure to perform or too much repetition to make him bored, and I enjoy my time with him more too. You have been training Diesel in obedience for a long time, I would guess hes probably sick/bored with it apart from his health and apparent lack of drive hurdles. If you really want to keep training him I would take a break and then just do pointless things with him, like tricks, and try a different one every day or 2 so there is never too much repetition of the same thing and no pressure on you to make him perfect at it, see if you can get him to enjoy learning/training again.

My Raffy took almost 3 years from when I got him to when the light bulb went on and he started to offer behaviours. But he is "special", all the other dogs I have worked with have done well in their first session, just start with something really easy, like interacting with an object that is nearby both you and the dog. I find they only offer tons of behaviours in shaping sessions, which you want anyway. We have shaped all sorts of fun things as well as agility stuff, especially with Anna my newest dog, I find all the things we have taught via shaping are much stronger than things taught other ways.

Apparently you make your own course so that you earn 21 points, not sure how points are determined, I would guess it is probably an agility and not a jumping course, should be fun

Not sure if this is helpful or not, but some dogs learn different ways better, so if you don't have any luck with Kavik's way, here is another... I had a biggish not too high sided box on the ground near me, and an object I wanted the dog to put in the box on the floor. I initially shaped the dog to show interest in the object and always placed the treat for her into the box. So she was shaped from looking at to nose touching then to mouthing the object. Soon enough I had shaped her to pick it up, treats still being placed in the box, and it didn't take too long and she would carry the object part way and then all the way to where she was predicting her treat in the box. I made a big fuss the first time she put the object into the box and after alittle while, raised the criteria to object must be in the box, it took a few trys of her picking up and dropping the object till she got it right, but seemed to learn what I wanted pretty fast. I was then able to generalise this to other objects and also shrink/change the box. You might want to start this with a container other than your bucket so you don't confuse her bucket fetch and an object she would want to pick up anyway like a dog toy/ball.

I am interested, depends on my finances, the location and whats covered tho, sounds like a great oportunity

When I trained I did it in the Cematary at sutherland there too, was a good spot for it