~Anne~

Cleveland, instead of taking the, mostly incorrect, information here as gospel I would telephone the authorities for advice. The DOL police will do your head in with their 'LAW'. :D In South Australia you could call : The Dog and Cat Management Board 08 8124 4962 RSPCA 08 8231 6931 AWL 08 8348 1300 Or your local Council.

I've just had a quick review of the two pieces of legislation that it might come under in SA and I cannot find anything that states that the OP has to surrender these animals. I'm really interested to get clarification though as I might have missed it. Also Tdierikx - if the animals are abandoned for months and left to starve, they are not owned, they're abandoned.

It was, and possibly still is, legal in Tasmania to hold onto any animal that is found to see if you can find any owner. You can then do as you please with it if no owner is found (obviously within limits). As I said, for all of you stating it is LAW I'm interested to read the law that states the cats have to be handed to a pound or the RSPCA. It may well be law, and I am not saying it isn't, but more often than not DOLers get very confused with their legislation and they apply blanket statements that turn out to incorrect. These statements then add to the confusion that is companion animal care and control in Australia.

In NSW it is law, but is it law in SA? Sorry, I'm not up on laws for each state so I really have no clue. I do know though that each state operates under it's code or legislation though. I think it's also important to note that some codes are codes only and are not legislation. Ie you cannot be fined or prosecuted for not obeying a code of practice.

Can someone point me to the legislation that states you must take an abandoned animal to the pound or RSPCA is SA. I know that this is covered in NSW by the Companion Animals Act but SA operates under the Animal Welfare Act and I am not sure this particular area is covered by the Act.

Reasonable? Bullocks. Greytmate, I would consider your argument reasonable, in the beginning at any rate.. I see the other as obtuse and belligerent. There is no reason or logic, just the need to feel some hyped up sense of power by cutting others down.

DCH also have a presence down this way. If help is needed I'm happy to help out where I can. I'm close to Nowra.

My vet told me a story about a client's Pug who rattled when she shook him... When they x-rayed him, he had 40 stones in his tummy! If it was in NSW I'd swear they were referring to Monte! :laugh: We blocked his access to the stones and removed them from areas he could still get to so he stopped eating them. I used to tap his belly and you could hear them clicking against each other.

Monte also eats river pebbles, sticks, leaves and plants and figs seed things from those large fig trees.

I wouldn't fret, Monte has been eating them for years. They come out the other end quite easily.

I'm so sorry Wendy. She was gorgeous.

Do foxes successfully transition from wild to domesticated? Was there anything in her behaviour that might have shown she didn't transition well?

Wow, she's very cute. How did you come to own her?

Agree with Sas. I'm battling mast cell tumours with Boofy and each one has looked fairly innocent. They're mostly all different too. Some of Boof's looked like raised pinky/red skin tag or moles, one was an actual lump under the skin and he now has a little red sore that I'm concerned about. We've had 5 in total and this latest could be number 6 although I could also just be paranoid!

I don't vaccinate AND I don't titre test. My dogs were exposed to various viruses when I ran my rescue. I didn't vaccinate them then either. I believe their resistance was improved further through exposure. They did however come down with light cases of KC. Boofy on two occasions and Monte once. They coughed for a few days and that was all. I don't kennel them, I find house sitters who can look after them. I'm not sure what I'd do if I had to kennel them. There is no way I will vaccinate them. The boys are 10 and 11 years respectively and Olivia is 8.5 years.

She's very cute! There is nothing cuter than a pug except for a pug puppy. You've got some great pics that seem show her personality.

The results are yet again inconclusive. He has nodules on his liver and spleen. Pete feels they may be insignificant and related to his age. However, as he explained, there is no way of knowing unless needle biopsies are done. To undergo a needle biopsy Boof would need to be seen by a specialist from Sydney Uni and the biopsy would be done under the guide of an ultrasound. This would possibly be at a cost of approximately $1200 or more and it would once again mean a GA. I will mull the information over while I consider all options. On the one hand he has had multiple tumours, but they were all only grade 1 and 2. It is likely even if they are tumours that they too will be low grade. It is more likely that they are not related to his previous tumours though and are simply age related. I am leaning towards just doing a follow up ultrasound in 2 months time to see if they have changed or grown. Interestingly the results also showed he has an enlarged heart. As we haven't experienced any symptoms and he shows no signs of a murmur I think Pete feels we can leave this alone unless anything changes.

I don't have the research links on my iPad, however they are there. I found 3 legitimate studies on the subject of desexing programs reducing the numbers of dogs entering shelters in the US. They show conclusive evidence that mass desexing programs failed to reduce the number entering the shelters. Two of those studies also included cats. There was a decline in cats in both. The number of dogs overall is irrelevant as there isn't an oversupply of dogs. Again, evidence clearly shows this. When I first began looking into desexing in rescue I wanted to prove the affirmative argument. I wanted to prove that dogs in rescues should be desexed. I initially held the view that any dog not being legitimately bred from should be desexed. However, I couldn't find facts to support that thinking. I found the opposite instead. I found evidence that either made my argument neutral or disproved it. I don't want to see dogs being needlessly killed in pounds. I down want to see dogs being abused in breeding programs. I think it is a waste of time pushing agendas that are doomed to fail be use there is no evidence to support them. So I'll keep asking and challenging thinking. The left side of my brain as a rescuer says 'yes! Desex at all cost' but the right is saying 'why? What will that achieve.' I firmly believe we've become so conditioned to think that desexing is the answer that we push it without thinking. I know that this was how it was for me and still is sometimes. When the OP is re-homing the puppies she should be weighing up the risks of desexing (and the particular risks involved in desexing young dogs) vs the risk of rehoming an entire dog.

No, I'm not asking you to follow my beliefs. In fact I pretty sure I've not actually stated my beliefs or angled for anyone to take them in whatever they may be. I asked a few straight to the point questions and was hoping for some responses and discussion. Over the years I've asked many similar questions. I've never yet received a logical response. At first I queried because I wanted a rock solid argument to present to an authority about desexing animals prior to rehoming. I researched, I asked questions, I spoke to people and I came up with the very obvious and glaring fact that there is no foundation to the desexing argument. I'm still researching. I'm still asking questions. I'll ask the question in a different way - what does desexing a rescue dog achieve?

I think you are being a bit cute here, Anne. You know very well that the argument for desexing before rehoming is meant to prevent any unplanned (or planned ) litters with the possibility that they will be fodder for pounds. I wouldn't call it cute, I'm actually trying to get people to think independently as I have for several years. There is no evidence that desexing programs slow down the rate of dogs entering pounds. There is evidence that desexing improves some health prospects and equally, there is evidence that desexing causing health issues. These two areas can be debated easily because the evidence is clear both ways. The same cannot be said for desexing and the rate of dogs entering pounds.

I can understand where Aphra is coming from. I think also that many people simply don't understand parliamentary process and how you petition for change and I'd be interested to know how serious this group is about becoming lobbyists. Will they be actual registered lobbyists or just another group hoping to be heard with their emotional pleas and little knowledge. Mita, I also agree with your point about how the org was founded.

What isn't it rescue though? How many entire dogs in the community are actually bred from, and if they are bred from, why is that an issue? To be honest it seems to me that we have all become expert at not thinking, so much so that we've forgotten to look at what actually makes sense. Why isn't it rescue to re-home a dog entire? Why do you consider it recycling? Does having a reproductive system intact mean that a dog will end up back in rescue?

Boof heads off to the vet again tomorrow for his scans. Fingers crossed for good results. Karen Goldrick (the holistic vet) phoned me to apologise for the error a couple of days ago. I've explained that the treatment plan has since changed and we wouldn't require any further consults. I know I should have said how disappointed I was with the service but in the back of my mind I suspect she knew and I guess I just couldn't be bothered going into battle as well. I am sure she has been told of this thread as she me mentioned the matter of sourcing the things she had recommended elsewhere and confirmed that even if he wasn't undergoing chemo these would still assist him. I will follow that advice.

I thought their concepts sound a little like an amalgamation of sorts of PACERS and the MDBA.

Sending them into the world undesexed is not a "good thing" no matter what situation they were saved from. If the reason for not desexing was age and weight, then the responsible solution is to hang onto them longer, until they can undergo a GA for either neutering or vasectomy. This kind of statement irks me. Yes, some dogs that are homed entire end up in situations that are not desirable, however that is a very small number overall. This whole concept of desex them to save them from cruelty is absurd logic. A desexed animal can also end up in situations of abuse and neglect. Desex at all cost is not the answer. In all the years I have been involved in rescue I am yet to see conclusive evidence to back up the desex everything is better argument. Desexing young animals can cause health issues. Rehoming entire animals can cause abuse issues. The solution is finding the balance in each individual case.