Weasels

No idea sorry but I really do hope it helps the Kenz-monster :)

I'm currently teaching Chess to stand with all 4 feet in a small laundry basket :) We do have a set of fitpaws paw pods but they are a bit advanced for us at the moment.

Yes, foxes will generally 'cache' their prey or baits (take it back to their den) if they have the option, i.e. aren't disturbed, can get the prey away from the kill area etc. A lot of sheep farmers across Australia actually find dogs more 'vile' than foxes. Dogs will engage in surplus killing because the behaviour of sheep under threat triggers their predatory insticts so they kill much more than they can eat. Once that settles down they will eat the best parts out of a few sheep then leave the rest for the farmer to find in the morning. So it's all a matter of perspective really That's the nature of predators.

Here's a 2-part article on reinforcing fear and thunderstorm phobia which might be helpful - http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/theotherendoftheleash/you-cant-reinforce-fear-dogs-and-thunderstorms http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/theotherendoftheleash/reinforcing-fear-ii-thunder-phobia-iii And a video from a seminar at the top of this article - http://fearfuldogs.com/myth-of-reinforcing-fear/ Edit - the fear is what is sustaining the behaviour, not your reinforcement. If the fear goes the behaviour will go too. Reducing the fear is a much more difficult problem, but don't worry about reinforcing fear.

:laugh: too hot to herd over here Too hot to go outside even the last few days!

LAT = the Look at That game (although I find the cue "lookatthat" cumbersome, so I use "there!")

No they would rather us all let the dogs loose to live in the wild like they were intended to There was a study last year where thousands of wild dogs from across Australia were DNA tested and I think something like 1% of them were domestic dogs (as opposed to dingoes or dingo-dog mixes). My conclusion? Dogs don't survive in the Australian bush. Taking them out of homes = sentencing them to a nasty death

I would be concerned about any off-leash dog that the owner couldn't recall. Yes this dog may have had a truncated prey instinct, but then it may not have, and may not apply it to everything. Chess understands that sheep and ducks are for herding, but anything smaller like a mouse and it's all prey drive.

Great post TSD :) Mogwai I would recommend picking up a copy of Control Unleashed (there's a DVD as well as a book if you are a visual learner), which has lots of strategies in addition to LAT for building focus and relationship, setting up environmental cues for behaviour etc. mostly through simple games. Yes :laugh: whenever we get together with other kelpies there is one dog focussed on a ball and the rest all line up behind with laser-eyes on her hips ready to chase at the slightest movement!

I hadn't considered handler aversion :laugh: Yes it is boring but I would do it a million more times for the results we've had - Weez's training video is actually being used as an example of desensitisation/CC in a dog training course now :/ But more importantly he can be interrupted before locking in on almost anything now (except cats and Chess) which is giving us the most low-stress walks we've ever had :) I'm the same with stays The only ones I practice lately involve walking circles around them....

As much as I love CU, the last couple of trainers I have discussed this with recommended starting with a more basic classical conditioning approach then moving to LAT when the dog has some control to move into the operant sphere. With Weez's reactivity we just did bar open/bar closed for a while (Look a scary thing! Have a bunch of treats and praise! Aww the scary thing left, everything is boring again) without asking any behaviour of him. I think this is an easier starting point because the timing is less precise, and it builds the confidence of both owner and dog so they are more comfortable before asking both to engage their brains - so it's easier for us average joe owners. Not sure how far past threshold the OP's dog is, but this worked for us :) Couldn't agree more about teaching the off-switch, I think Chess get more out of our walks now that she understands "have a rest" and can go sniff/roll/be a dog for a while instead of just staring at me for a ball-throw the whole time! Edit - one other problem we had with LAT in the early stage was that for a dog on a hair trigger with a well-practiced behaviour, I didn't always know whether he was over threshold/'stuck' until he didn't respond to the click. The CC work we did broke that immediate response enough so that I had time to teach an alternative behaviour while he was trying to decide whether to react or not :/

:laugh: you are so right...I never thought of that! Stan could crash on my couch anytime :D Maddie too!

I have a dog (my non-sticky one) who will just work for the love of working and for the opportunity to engage with one of her owners, but I still use clicker training with her because the communication of what I want is just so much clearer, so she picks things up in a few minutes. The main difference between training her and my other 'stuff-you-human' dog something new is that I can fade the reinforcement quicker. It's nifty :) Another pro-clicker point: in things like LAT when you are reacting to your environment quickly I find I get far more tongue-tied trying to cue-marker-next cue using my voice (I usually add in some praise, I probably shouldn't but it just happens), so adding a clicker to mark actually requires less coordination. However I don't have the best connection between my brain and my voicebox at the best of times so YMMV :laugh:

Excellent post Corvus. Robert Kaleski, who wrote the first kelpie breed standard, described a dog that "would rather work than eat" so I think it's understandable that people struggle with such a 'down-to-the-bone' instinct in a modern environment. Counter-conditioning and later LAT/an environmentally-cued heel have been magic for my sticky dog. Also just redirecting his herding drive to chasing a ball (he will follow it until it stops, then stare at it until I go over and get it :laugh:) means I can walk among all manner of distractions, from kids yelling/running/playing soccer, people riding boogie boards on the beach, to dogs actually jumping on top of him to get his attention and he remains locked on that ball like... well like a kelpie doing a job! Edit - re. luring, if it's a choice between having the dog react/start being predatory and luring them away, I will choose the luring every time. Not letting my dog practice the unwanted behaviour is a priority in our training. But as others said, use it as a piece of information on where his threshold is and try to work further out next time to set up for success :) And if we were caught without clicker and treats/toy in the early stage of training I would move away from the stimulus and leave the training session for another day. My boy doesn't have high value for pats and praise (we've worked up to "moderately reinforcing" from "moderately aversive") so I can't see that would've been a better offer than the reinforcement of engaging his instincts prior to the last year of work we've done.

Cream is the other solid colour that can't be shown but is found on working kelpies. The president of our herding club does both :) His show-line BCs show good instinct and ability. -- A few of the bench kelpie breeders advertise their dogs as show + agility prospects rather than herding dogs. Which is what a lot of suburban kelpies will end up doing anyway since it can be hard to access stock in some places. Not their original purpose but I think they'd still be happy healthy awesome dogs :)

:laugh: Merry xmas SM :)

Well you're right at the end - a kelpie in instinct mode might as well have their ears painted on I know it's a big undertaking, but the best way to teach a sheep dog when not to herd is to teach them to herd (the proper way, not the way they want to). Are you anywhere near Erskine Park or another herding trainer? If not, I'd work on interrupting the behaviour at the very first sign of it and redirecting to another game like tug or some targetting (while turning away from the the thing getting stalked). A dog locked in stalk mode might need a bit sharper treatment than normal, I use a "hey!" or a clap in front of their face if they are ignoring me which snaps mine out of it so we can go do something else.

Weez had to face being given a turkey neck today, which is a NEW THING. Human should know by now he doesn't like new things Nothing for it but to sit as far across the room as possible and stare at it all afternoon

When you're mooching at a bbq and the people keep offering you potato chips instead of the cheese you KNOW they have.

Mine too on the mental image thing :laugh: I hope Bella finds the best home ever as a result of this segment, she is beautiful :)

I would buy a copy of that for everyone I know.

+1 on all three points.

Seems like a lot of dogs have been called over the bridge this past week Rest peacefully little man.

Pretty sure it's just unripe tomatoes - the red ones are fine as far as I understand it :)

That's been my observation too - at training, generally the kelpies are all fixated on a ball/each other, the bords are hanging out with their owner and the Aussies are running around playing!