ness

I am sorry to hear about Comet's passing as well. Take care all at Benshiva and go and give the rest of your furbabies a huge cuddle.

Oh yes I forgot about the practice turns and heelwork minus the dog. I was doing that this morning or attempting to until somebody decided to join in LOL. Next time I intend to do that she will be tied up hehehehe. Sporting ovals with lines are great for making sure you do nice square turns. One more thing I do which you could do with the ball is use whatever cue words you want to eventually use to switch him on and then just throw the ball. Then you can mix it up and the dog doesn't know if your getting ready to play or asking them to work. I only recently started using the cue words to get her ready to work - it was suggested by an instructor on my perth trip. She was just using are you ready and then getting her to work and after about the third time you could see Ness actually get excited. Funnily enough I didn't even think till after the lesson that before I threw her frisbee at the park or her toy at the beach I would ask her are your ready so those words actually already had an element of enthusiasm associated with then. Half my battle has been getting Ness to switch on when I want her to rather than demanding heelwork when she wants and only going with half enthusiasm when I want it. It didn't work quite as well when I caught up with my instructor here a week or so ago mind you BUT then it was the middle of a warm afternoon so all things being considered I wasn't to upset. I do have some more video up on youtube and you will see how badly my handling is. I thought I had fixed it up but like I said bad habits such as looking at the dog aren't something you necessarily pick up on when your training alone. It wasn't till I saw it on the video that I realised it still wasn't fixed. Now I am consciously trying to not look at her which means I am insisting on a shoulder contact position at all times so I can at least feel if she is in the correct position. When this video was filmed a few weeks ago we hadn't really been concentrating on heelwork practice other than short bits. Its not her best by any means but not half bad. ETA. As for the lead is there any reason why you don't just get rid of it and train off-lead .

I will be honest, my opinion is that neither you nor he look very enthusiastic about it and you look like your just going through the motions. It might be the heat or the fact your videoing it - I know I get that way with my girl and so does she both with taping something and when its hot. Quite simply at the moment I just don't ask for a lot when its hot (if anything) because I don't want to reward lazy work. Ok so I am not perfect either - yep you certainly do look at him to much as do we all. Its a bugger of a bad habit to fix. Did you go out with a plan for the session - what were your goals (also if you reward what are you going to use and how are you going to do it and when). It has been suggested to me that the way to get enthusiastic heelwork is to keep the sessions short, not to drill and approach the session with a specific goal in mind rather than just doing whatever heelwork you should feel like since if you approach it this way you tend to do really long sessions which don't achieve a hell of a lot because you don't have anything to measure against. Much better to have short targeted training sessions. For instance you might plan a session to work just on positions (could be a sit session, drop or stand session). So you would only work on that and not do long bits of heelwork in between. It might be 1 step position, 2 steps position or even 3 but not long lengths. Changes of paces can be worked out simply by setting the dog up doing a few paces of normal into 1 step of either fast or slow then reward. Then maybe go to 3 steps. Then 5. Then 10. Then mix it up. You might have to work on getting enthusiastic normal pace first in which case you go through the same process of slowly adding steps and rewarding but without the pace change. Same goes for turns. You don't drill the long lengths of heelwork if you want to work on nice sharp turns. In fact I do a lot of turn work practising inside in the airconditioning on the spot. At least that was what I did this past weekend and when I took her to the park this morning she was just fantastic. Doodling heelwork is brilliant. If you want to work on duration heelwork but all means work on that for a session but the best way to work on that is to work in large circles (both clockwise and anti-clockwise). Oh and don't do to much in a session. Start with a distance your dog is comfortable with and build on it but make sure you set your criteria first and don't deviate. For example its my preference for my girl to look at me all the time and for her head not to drop. Therefore the minute her head drops I break off what I am doing and don't reward but set her up again. You need to break it off so you don't build sloppy work into the behaviour chain. You can add distractions slowly such as food containers (or toys) placed on the ground as figure 8 posts. But remember when you start adding distractions to reduce the amount of time you are working before rewarding the dog. The other thing you can practice is making the heel position so exciting for the dog. So you basically ask the dog to set up and then rewarding. My cue words to get her switched into work are "Are you ready", "Do you wanna do something". These words are conditioned to mean that I want her full attention and once I get her in position and set up and working she gets my full attention. Any way that is a starting point - sorry if its to much information or if you weren't after that much detail.

Well done Vickie. I have to say my favourite game would have to be Strategic Pairs. That is a real laugh both from a competitor and a spectator point of view. Fine if everything goes according to plan but just watch what happens when it doesn't.

Have sent you a PM.

Gatecrashing your thread for a minute so Maverick are you coming to Adelaide in May. Would love to meet all of you and your guys if you are coming. Keep me posted. I'll be one of those running a slow BC in Masters Jumping LOL.

Hey guys, Thanks for the compliments. Hmm the heeling isn't that bad its just that its better now . Mostly the setting up and I am not walking into her quite as much.

Another older Ness clip doing some heelwork. Its really old and we have changed a hell of a lot since then.

Here are a couple of clips of Ness doing UD training last night. Excuse the quality of the video - I think I compressed them a bit far before uploading. The first one is of her doing metal scent discrimination: The second clip is of her doing a sendaway (part of the Directed jumping exercise). Edited- thanks Mrs D they should be available now I hope.

Hey Hazz, Do you know of any eagle pack suppliers in SA other than the canine association shop?

Ness's achievements for the year are: The biggy obtaining her CDX in 3 straight trials while living interstate in a family of 3 other dogs (anybody knows its hard enough to pass in the minimum number at the best of times and to go from being an only dog to being one of three is quite a leap). Getting not 1 BUT 2 Masters Jumping Passes (anybody would have thought our last one was our title but its been the only pass we have got under a SA judge (which is why we still haven't got a title as we live in SA) and it had been at the end of a very long triple trial in fairly warm conditions). Getting a novice Strategic Pairs title (2 legs over in WA and 1 leg last weekend at the Police expo). Also managed a couple of legs towards her novice gamblers title - 1 more to go next year but I am saving that one for the Nationals. Another excellent agility pass and first place to boot and looking like she has finally got over the table problem that kept us in novice/excellent agility for so long. Training wise: Learning UD scent discrimination in the last month - very impressed with that since I have never taught a dog anything utility wise before. Here is to an equally successful 2007.

Nope I disagree some BCs have tons of food drive, although of course there are some situations where these usual piggy BCs might refuse food such as when they are working sheep. I know a number of BCs who would turn themselves inside out for a treat - mine being one of them although there are a few circumstances where she is more interested in what she is doing to want treats. Guess it comes down to the individual dog rather than a breed generality. But I would agree you might find once she settles that she is more receptive to food.

If a dog directly interferes with another dog then the dog who was interfered with is generally given a rerun. I saw it happen in novice where a dog got up and stood over and intimidated another dog causing it to break. This was during the sit stay and the handler who's dog was interfered with was given the choice of leaving the ring and coming back to do a complete lot of new stays after or doing the down stay and having a rerun of the sit stay afterwards - This was in NOVICE by the way.

Well I thought since CTD was posting this and kind of presuming as ML said in relation to BCs - my observations from our girl. She was desexed at nearly 7 months - think it was actually 6 months 3 weeks. She has a straight BC coat, apparently a very nice coat or so I have been told by those that know. She hasn't got a lot of coat but then she is female and for your information she is 46.5cm so at the bottom of breed standard as far as height goes. I have been told that getting a male desexed early actually reduces the amount of coat they carry because they need the further hormones to develop the big manes in particular without the additional hormones they develop coats much more like the females.

Have PM'd you. Ness

I read this and had to do a double take - I just couldn't believe it. You have had the most horrid time over the last year haven't you. First the wonderful Yogi and now little Loch. My heart goes out to you . I am so sorry. Ness and I send our sincerest condolances. Hugs to you, Connor and the rest of the family - you must be so devasated I bet words can't describe how you are feeling.

I would agree with what people are saying. Don't give in and join up a few lists and get some positive training books and train yourself. I live in SA and even in the city we have had slim pickings in the way of positive clubs. I started training my 5.5 year old BC around the time I was 18 and most of my training has been done with information I have received from a wonderful group of people online (all positives). I am now fortunate enough to have found a club (who's methods I agree with) which I can train at but that has only been recently - as in the last couple of months. There are some wonderful people out there who are more than happy to share information and answer questions as you require so its not that hard to go it alone. Ness

Hey Mel, My footage not working asking about . My brother has made an agility DVD if you want it. Can't remember what was on it. Else I have some of the runs (the good dogs) from the Adelaide Royal last year floating around the place. ETA Also have a nice long collection of canine freestyle from the pet expo - not Mary Ray standard but still. Ness

Hey, Ok just a thought from me but from my reading you are using both "stay" for the sit and the drop stay - is this correct? Firstly never practice a sit stay and then a drop stay in training if you want to practice them both break it up and practice something else in between like heelwork or retrieving or whatever? As for the actual command have you thought about not using a stay command and just building up the duration of the sit or drop command like you would if you had said stay. Some dogs seem to get confused that stay means hold the position and seem to think it really means stay in the one location. I know some people who just use the command sit for sit stays or drop for drop stays. Maybe that might be worth a shot as its clearly differentiated for the dog so they don't get confused. Depending on what sort of length of time your dog will stay in a sit or drop you might have to build it up as you did with a stay. Hope this helps. Ness

ROFL memyself i must have missed the sheltie owner jokes on the Saturday we only got sheltie dog jokes oh and Ian's Malamute/Husky type impersonation was very clever - did you get to see that as well in Melbourne? Actually in fact all his impersonations were good.

I was at the Adelaide one last Sunday. I too really enjoyed what he had to say and he was definitely a really good presenter. Everybody spent a good part of the seminar laughing - especially at all those sheltie jokes.

Sorry you haven't go much assistance on the training levels list. I can only suggest though what you need to do is to start at home - will she ignore a plate of food at home on the ground. If she can't do it at home then you need to start there and gradually extend it when she is out. She is after all only a puppy. Plate of food on floor for assistance dog test just sounds like food zen which you said she could do. Intense concentration to a task is something that is developed over a period of time. I haven't trained a service dog before. If she has prey drive are you able to teach her tug (not sure if that might be a problem for you). Then you start with something simple once she is tugging, for instance ask her to sit and reward with a tug. Have you also thought about conditioning something like a toy to food. As in pairing a bit like a clicker so eventually the toy becomes a reward. Is this of any help? ETA I can see that I was on the same wavelength as Tassie Ness

Fair enough Tristan - not totally sure I understand where you are coming from but I guess your entitled to have your opinion. I am surprised that Sue's list isn't helpful to you I got lots of help on there but don't read it all that frequently these days because of a lack of time. Ness lives for food in much the same way Flossie does, if there is a crumb on the other side of the oval given half a chance she would find it. While Ness is not a service dog she is a herding breed and she has learnt that just because there is food there it isn't necessarily for her taking (well some of the time, other times I really don't care as its not an issue with her). Frequently when training now I'll leave an entire bowl of food on the ground and work her and then release her and go and reward from the container. It you work through the food zen process then I doubt you would have a problem with Flossie - I don't have the incentive so I haven't fussed to much. All the best with it. Ness

Hey Tristan, You can still use treats. The idea with clicker training is that the food is a reward NOT a bribe. The dog should work regardless of whether the food is there or not. If you don't always use food what you need to do is write down a list of things that Flossie finds rewarding. My BC is the exact same and is all food driven but with a bit of work I can get her to play tuggy and accept that as a reward under some circumstances. You can use other things like the opportunity to have an explore off-leash, going out a doorway etc etc. What you really need to teach Flossie is doggy zen rather than necessarily totally do away with using treats. There is a brilliant clicker training approach to this written up by Sue Ailsby http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/%20Dog1/levels.html Her section on Zen is: http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/Leve...rs/TL26Zen.html. You can also have a look at her puppy training diary of Stitch who is her self clicker trained service dog. http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/%20Dog1/Blog.html If you want to know anything more let me know. There is also a yahoogroup attached to that where you can post questions as to the levels of which Sue herself is an active member.

Hi Eddy as far as I am aware rules are coming in 1 July 2006 as for the rules they were posted online. I think there were in the files of the ozobedience yahoogroup else I think there was a link posted up at k9events. Ness