Cosmolo

Sidoney, thanks for posting that article on the Premack principle- its really very interesting.

staff n toller, can i ask how you think diagnostic x rays would help? I realise that may sound like a really dumb question (and i admit i have limited knowledge on this subject so feel free to correct me) but if the x rays were to show arthritis (as they can't show muscular problems) what different course of action could be taken other than what we've done already after a physical examination and diagnosis? Cartrophen, joint formulas, diet etc have already been explored and are ongoing.

staff n toller- thats a fabulous client to instructor ratio. We've just finished running some group classes with 2 instructors and 8 dogs which worked really well. But all too often i see massive classes with only one instructor which can make it very difficult.

This is how cool we are- my dogs can push a pram :D Does that make me as cool as shoemonster??

Hadn't thought about the valium Haven- are there side effects? I would consider it- wouldn't like it but would do it if it was going to be good for him. Just to add, that he is even very uncomfortable/ stressed if we were to handle him (in terms of a massage or stretches) when he is sore. I know how to do some stretches and very basic gentle massage and even then he can only cope with very small doses. I don't want to stress him to a point where he is so tense that the treatment can't be effective. But i don't want him to be in physical pain either.. So confusing.. :D

Great points guys- Vickie, if you were going to teach a running contact, whats your opinon on how it would need to be trained to avoid having an untrained contact? I do the same as whats mentioned for the weavers- gets frustrating when the instructors at training suggest/ try to insist not to worry if she misses a weaver and to continue running the course and/ or rewarding her. I politely nod and then do it again with her only getting the reward for completing the weavers properly.

Good analogy with the horse side of things as i always used to have private dressage and show jumping lessons as opposed to a group. Its about how the dog school uses distractions as well- sometimes they can only represent the same distractions in the group environment whereas a good private trainer can vary distractions both in terms of environment and individual components- dogs etc. My partner and i both watch each other train as we are both trainers and i think we're lucky to be able to do that as we can really pick up the little things- as well as the big mistakes! I am a big believer in training to a higher level than what you'll ever need in a trial and i think private training can be the best vehicle for it. Feel free to have a look at our website jules as i'm sure we could travel to your area.

You don't have to do retrieves in novice do you? You can do change of position instead?

Nekbhet- with total strangers he shows quite alot of avoidance- which obviously changes if that stranger needs to do something to him, a vet etc. Comes as a result of extremely weak nerves and average socialisation (he was a dog who needed great socialisation but was a working dog on a property so didn't meet many people, especially not strangers) Wouldn't make a difference if the therapist was in the home- he might actually be slightly worse. And they were my thoughts as well regarding the effectiveness of the treatment being compromised. He is on a few supplements already, a good diet etc and will try the warm baths when he is particularly bad.

Thanks shoemonster, we do have some cool pictures on the website- Cosmo and Jess are easy to take photos of. I think he thought Georgie was ugly because she's not pure! Congrats to LP on your win- you must have been very proud and done so well to get 97- well done! Cosmo has only got 94, in a novice trial and i was thrilled with that so you must be stoked. I will be there on the 14th with Georgie and Cosmo- everyone will have to be gentle on Georgie- we've only had her a few months (hope that excuse doesn't run out for a while)and she's just started her training- some exercises are really good but she doesn't even know stand yet! Not sure whether she'll trial yet- will depend on her. And we've been out of practice with Cosmo for ages!!

Interested in those of you who do agility or are planning on starting as to whether you teach a running contact or 2o2o? Or something else? What do you consider to be the advantages and disadvantages of each? Do you think it varies dependng on the dog you've got? What problems have you encountered along the way? Would you do anything differently next time? Also want to know what you do when your dog misses a contact, or misses a weaver- do you use a no reward mark? Give the reward anyway? Allow the dog to continue running the course? Repeat the exercise? Give a verbal correction? Or something else?

As you may have seen in previous posts, 2 of my dogs are suffering from arthritis at what i consider to be a fairly young age- 7 1/2 and 8 years old. The 7 1/2 year old had a massage last week which seems to have given some improvement- although she hasn't had any hard exercise since then that would normally cause her to pull up sore- she pulled up well from moderate exercise yesterday. I have recommendations for acupunture, remedial massage, hydrotherapy etc etc. Here is my question- the 8 year old boy would become incredibly stressed with any of the mentioned treatments, to the point where he is likely to need a muzzle, urinate, squeal and generally consider the whole experience a huge ordeal. I do believe this would carry over beyond the treatment as well so not a case of short term pain for long term gain, there is a good chance it will affect his behaviour with strangers etc which is tentative as it is. If it was your dog, would you explore treatments for a physical problem that would stress the dog to such a point where you believe their mental state would be adversely affected?

Does the dog like food more now? Why do you want to change the reward?

I should be able to make it to the afternoon at KCC-are we posting RSVPs here? And probably should include how many dogs we'll be bringing and wanting to work. How will it run? I think it would be good to have each person demo where they are at and then as a group suggestions can be given? That way everyone can get lots of different ideas and see how different training concepts might apply- they can pick the one that suits them and their dog best? And yes, i'm sure you've got us pegged rhaps78. As for Georgie's breed- your guess is as good as ours! We think she is a dane cross am staff. We think she's pretty cute but one of the instructors commented on how ugly she was the first time he saw her! What about poor little Cosmo- she's cute too!!

Sorry, when i said shoey- i meant shoemonster, other DOLer. I go on Wednesdays and have Cosmo and Georgie- see photos. We tend to do our own thing when we go down with the obedience and then go in and do agility.

Does the behaviour occur in any other situation? Does he follow you around the house and get distressed if separated by a barrier etc?

Shoey and i are at Southern too

Are the workshops always on a Saturday?

That would have been a hard ask with that dog- well done!!

Not mornings!! i have classes in the mornings.. what about a mid week night?

Knox would be fine for me. A bunch of trainers in the one spot- doesn't that frighten anybody else!!??

SM, giving a well timed appropriate level correction is not cruel and doesn't hurt the dog. Georgie is more confident now than she was before the training we've done, and as you saw, its a combination of positive reinforcment and corrections. Corrections should never be given in anger or frustration either and effective lead handling skills and timing will mean that you can give a correction at a much lower level and it will still be effective. The reason why you found that he was more enthusiatic was because things were really clear to him and dogs love that. Clients of mine get confused when after i've worked with their dog and given a few corrections, the dog seems to 'like' me even more. And i say to them that its not that the dog likes the correction, but that they LOVE the clarity that comes from it when used appropriately and in combination with rewards for the good stuff! Thanks for the comliments about Georgie and Cosmo- Georgie still has a long way to go but she's lots of fun to train and considering how long we've had her, we're really happy with what she can do.

Does that mean if you train differently, you can't come.. ???

Thanks for all the help- i will look into some of the options, i don't want to doble up if some of its the same or similar to the joint guard though. Thats very nice of you to say nellybly10- i just don't want arthritis to age them prematurely

SM- i'm happy to train with you at Southern, its just around the corner from us and your not too far from where we live. Plans are good but you need to be prepared to deviate from them if necesary. I would write a list of what you need to work on- in detail. Decide once and for all on the techniques and equipment you are going to use- verbal markers, clickers, corrections, release words- all of these things i see people be inconsistent with. Sometimes corrections, sometimes not, sometimes release word, sometimes not. Decide what will work best for you and your dog and stick with it- no more chopping and changing!! And btw, it was great to meet you and your furry ones last night SM- Ed is an absolute spunk and is very very capable!!