Two Best Dogs!

I think the one that is a study on victorian/melbourne shelter dogs makes references in the opening literature to studies on the effects of desexing dogs and shelter intake - i'm a bit brain dead from adventuring with my dog right now, but I think it was a US one so i'd skim the introduction section and look for that or I'll try to remember to skim it myself later. Confess I didn't read too deeply into it as my forays into articles are usually more about behaviour of shelter dogs and reasons for surrendering than the desexing status (not that it couldn't be related, just not what I was thinking about at the time so skimmed past) Am thinking I really should start reading the big ass animal behaviour in shelter books I got. It's just so big, it's intimidating. It's heavy on the science too, so is going to probably need quite a few re-reads and googling of terms :laugh: You'll know when I'm reading it, I'll probably be sharing the studies I find personally interesting in the science study thread as the book talks about them.

Willem, I'd hesitate to jump from the conclusion of the article you link (specifically on the most common behavioural issues in dogs surrendered for behavioural issues) to (quoting you) "that the most frequent reason to surrender a dog are behaviour issues". Correlation does not equal causation and the like. Not to mention, some of those behaviour issues I take issue with in that article as being labeled a behavioural issues - because now those dogs are labeled as dogs with issues when it's things like: too active, soils house, destructive outside, disobedient, needs to much attention. So many is just dogs being dogs. There is also a very important question that relates to your main concern that goes unanswered in the article that the researchers need to do more work into: The data doesn't let them draw causation from the above. So for these dogs assessed, it is which came first? The bad behaviour or the desexing? This study is from 2000, so ideally the researchers hopefully have been elaborating on it or someone else has. Perhaps check where this article has been citated to see if anyone builds on it? Here's a couple of articles and the like for you to read if you want on various reasons dogs are surrendered: This one is USA specific, like your article, and mostly focuses on purebreed surrenders (It is a book excerpt, not the entire book. I've had difficulties getting my hand on this one) This one is a study comparing the intake of dogs through 3 victorian shelters: it is a long study, I think Patronek is probably your main frustration so I guess you could hunt down his (or her?) research to see where these conclusions came from: and just in general, melbourne data trends: My personal agenda here is highlighting that surrendered dog does not mean more likely to have behavoural issues. If anything, my casual reading has suggested a pretty consistent rate of 10-20% of dogs being relinquished for "behavoural reasons" that range between severe issues like aggression down to digging holes and not toilet trained. Desexing brings you out of the woodwork willem, claims that the majority of shelter dogs are behavioural problems brings me out :laugh: Page 35-36 (for that particular excerpt) This one is a look at abandoned animals in australia but it touches upon analysing surrenders to the RSPCA here and there: This book I had arrive last month, but have not had a chance to read it. It is going to be quite a heavy read I suspect, as it's the cumulation of recent research, studies etc. I'm expecting to have a lot of my preconceptions changed! It's a really flipping big heavy book though, so I can't take it on the train with me. Hence not started reading it yet, but perhaps your local library can order it in if you're curious. Animal Behavior for Shelter Veterinarians and Staff,” co-edited by Emily Weiss, PhD; Heather Mohan-Gibbons; and Stephen Zawistowski, PhD. Here's an introductory articleon the book Personally a favourite quote of mine, paraphrased is: “Most people want a $1000 dog and $100 training, most people need a $100 dog and $1000 training.“ But thing is, you can't force someone to do $100 of training let alone $1000 of training. You can't force people to desex (in most cases, clashes with the law pending) either. But one is much easier to encourage than the other. Which is a shame. I'm up to about $800 in training I reckon, and the results speak for themselves. Even if I didn't practice outside of class, there would be improvement just from weekly sessions. But it's not an option for everyone, or they don't realise it is as an option, or they don't value it, or they're not interested or they just plain don't want to repeatedly train their dog.

Thistle smelt absolutely """"wonderful"""" afterwards! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: so wonderful I spent all of wednesday washing her and her sheets but I maintain the best kind of dog is a muddy one :)

Please enjoy this exclusive one-time only Swan Lake by Mystery Mutts Pty Ltd :laugh: I think it's safe to say we have a promising career on dog ballet :D

I think my wisdom test was about $100 or so at a nearby vet. I don't recall I'm afraid :s Embark is currently on sale, but it is usually $199 US... so factor in some foreign exchange and postage... eek!

Come on, share, how shit? My favourite bit of the wisdom test for us was "Boston Terrier". I'm generalising that to some evidence of a "bully type" in her XD I want to know what the embark will give us, considering how few australian breeds on it (but hey it has catahoula so you never know!)

I saw that! I've been considering getting an Embark but it's quite a bit of $. I really like how they keep your dog's results on hand and compare it to future databases/updates etc. I also like that embark lets you know what genetic condition markers are in your dog - the wisdom panel doesn't let you know that, just tells you "these breeds a predisposed to X $50 to find out if your dog has it" Considering they're just genetic markers not banking on that, so like that embark just goes ahead and runs your dog's DNA against the database. I'll probably get it in the next year or so. Then compare it to the widsom test haha, see if there's any overlap on the potential breed types in the dog.

Cool article on abc.net.au about better dog management! http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-28/helping-dogs-become-better-urban-citizens/7882000

Always locked up for tradies and assorted strangers, whether I am there or not. For guests, start out locked up and bring her out to her 'place' after everyone is settled so can reward her for just chilling nearby.

They come running?

I don't see any drool, so.... the immediate response?

I'm not sure how your recalls usually go, but near cliffs? Off lead? Sitting in front of you on return?

It is very windy??? There are cows? She checks in on you a lot?? What kind of whistle? We started whistle recalls a couple of days ago! I do not think we are ready for outside and windy though, one day! https://igcdn-videos-c-5-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t50.2886-16/14440152_686432074841005_7667029399505469440_n.mp4

LUA dalmation and a kelpie-lurcher :laugh: wouldn't mind a healthy Cav when i'm retired, if they're healthier and y'know still around then. Seem the perfect old person dog to me hahah. Also failed or retired detector dog lab* :laugh: it's a cool program, i'd love to have one out of it one day. *a chocolate one And a well bred calm friendly bichon who does rally o ????

Hahah I saw that PK. I actually just took her out of it, now that the cut is all scabbed over. Just didn't want her worrying at it. Decorative muzzles are fun! Wouldn't recommend this brand of duct tape though, the sticky is already leaving I just wanted a pretty muzzle! Perhaps anyone who considers taking the dog on can do a "foster with a view to adopt" trial run, with all the support you and the rescue can give them. Perhaps find a local dog group where you can start teaching her in a formal situation to control herself around dogs and people (at a safe distance!) - then potential new owner could also take where you leave off at the group? (I do not recall if you have something like this available to you, I'm more thinking controlled structured situations to teach her to stay calm in addition to any BAT/LAT/rehab/meds)

Sound's like the boss is the right sort once it's been pointed out, glad your son isn't in it alone! Shame the owner is so absolutely clueless that her dog is a pain in the ass. Still reckon her dog should be confined, but I don't recall if Tassie has specific rules around that. Just not bloody safe.

Oh yeah, I'm sure Honey has been having an absolute blast with her daily puzzles and self-guided walks :laugh:

....to be honest, while I sympathise with his efforts that is not what I would call secure fencing. Look at all those foot holds for a particularly resourceful and athletic kelpie. He is patching escape routes as they happen and really appears to be trying, but the basic fence isn't all that sturdy to begin with The fines are a bit excessive but I'm glad a payment plan is in order. Ends on a good note though, sounds like he's found more suitable family and job to keep her active and occupied. ...and wish those rangers were out enforcing my local area. They'd raise a lot of revenue around here from all the roaming dogs.

oh no, that's quite a bit of mud! :laugh:

I just google the lawyer and his cases, he's everywhere on google as a full on criminal lawyer. Ex detective. I'd never have guessed unless it's a different guy! That's not a method that occurred to me! I think usually I go with the person's name because the court cases tend to be something like GIBLETT vs COUNCIL OF WHEREVER THIS HAPPENED so easier to find because it's just a transcript, unless lawyers traditionally put all their cases online whether successful or not? Edit: I couldn't find an update on the poor girl but this article has more photos. If you thought the poor tradie was bad, do not click http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3790604/We-don-t-child-molesters-murderers-Lawyer-owner-two-vicious-Staffordshire-terriers-mauled-nine-year-old-girl-says-SHOULDN-T-killed.html (it is not gory, just upsetting to see so much injury and bandages) I would expect she be in hospital at least a week or two. Hopefully she is home now.

I'm exactly the same. I always contain the dogs if tradies come - mine are very friendly but tradies don't want to be bothered by dogs while they are working, common sense! And they tend to leave gates open Basically been my life the past 2 weeks. I've had nonstop tradies. The dog has gone nuts over the extra confinement but the tradie safety comes first over a destroyed book and a pillow. and by keeping the tradies safe, i keep the dog safe. gates get left open, potentially toxic items are laying about, tools everywhere, dogs underfoot, allergies, might just be an ass who will claim was threatened etc etc. By keeping them separate, the jobs are done safely and the dog is safe. I hope this owner isn't so much of a pillock as to ignore the boss and not put his dog away...

Please let us know how your son goes Ellz, hopefully it will just be a quick chat to his boss with a quick chat to the owner and the dog is locked up out of the way. Dogs should always be locked up when tradies are working IMO. Even if not aggressive - being underfoot, hazardous building materials and the risk of gates being left open. Too many risks.

Argh indeed it is a bit easier in a way - the big issues began when I was already a committed owner, she was now a solo dog and no one else in the house to consider. Meanwhile scarlet got the short end of the stick - I surrendered her knowing she's likely be pts. Scarlet was outright aggression though, I couldn't in good mind rehome her too dangerous. Perhaps if I didn't also have thistle I might have kept her, hard to say. Human aggression is a deal breaker for me so I probably wouldn't. But then also you get attached so perhaps might have gone same route with training. Still would have had to choose between two dogs though :/ It is hard I don't like thinking about it much. I'm not much help I'm afraid.

This is a tricky one I think. Because her human issues were in a way both better and worst before I got her? Worse in that she will give fearful but also silly bays at people 15+ metres away. Better in that she wasn't bolting all the time, was voluntarily going up to ppl. Dogs were not an issue at all, even when a big puppy surprised us and she jumped. And different in that outside world she was pretty good if completely untrained. Before adopting I took her to botanical gardens, the vet, a pet store and a dam. Test walks and different environments. Couldn't walk on the lead but was your typical overexcited dog. She did cower all night first night home but was silly the next day. And I had no issues with guests or even the petsitter the first few months. But then yeah then Scarlet attacked her and she became worse than when I got her. I'm not sure if her ppl issues became so extreme straight away after the attack and I didn't notice or not. My issue is more guests and the rare occasional man outside the house. I think because it's her safe space + I don't have guests over often. It really scares her. It wasn't until October a good 8 months after adoption that I realised we had the "new" guest issue. Idk if I missed a fear period or it was from the attack or something happened while I wasn't home but she went from quiet with guests to the scared barking and growls. But she always retreats. Pisses, retreats. Haven't had her raise a lip or lunge or anything. and it's pretty specific to the house + ppl approaching her. It's mitigated if I bring ppl in then bring thistle in then we can work on counter conditioning. The "toward" her movement is the trigger? TBH I wouldn't have adopted post-attack thistle even with full disclosure. But I was a first time owner a knew I couldn't handle a dog like that. Pre-attack thistle was a bit of a fixer-upper but not overwhelmingly so. More the kind I'd need to wait patiently. Post-attack thistle was a wreck and now we have finally buffed her up pretty nice and just working on those final touches. She'll always be a bit of a work in progress but we will get there. I think full disclosure is a good idea but idk how it would affect adoption. If the rescue had known about Scarlet's issues and not told me I would have been after them for not telling me. So it's good for them that I think they honestly had no idea she was as she was. I think some kind of management plan to give new owners to start out with is a good idea. And definitely be upfront about outright nos. Sorry idk how helpful that all is. It's a pretty muddled timeline of ups and downs

He really should talk to his bosses about it. Then if they're halfway decent bosses they should talk to the client about locking the dog up while the workers are on site. The owner letting that dog act like that is a lawsuit waiting to happen! He wouldn't be rocking the boat overly, make sure he frames it as a learning type question. "The dog keeps attacking my legs and tripping me, what should I do" to the boss could hopefully lead to the boss going to the client "your dog is slowing the work, please lock it up". Otherwise I would go with the throwing treats away from him for the dog to go after as a destraction. Since it's not his dog, he can't really train it without overstepping boundaries and it'd be dangerous considering its behaviour. I would certainly NOT go for a collar grab! Strange, potentially aggressive dog? Very dangerous.