Erny

Goldens - I'm glad it has made such a difference for you. Although I wish I could pass the credit on to the DOLer who put up the information elsewhere before, but I'm remiss in that I cannot recall who it was. :rolleyes:

Learnt this off another DOLer recently .... Hold the CTRL key down and use the scroll on your mouse (can your fingers manage that?) ..... this will increase (or decrease, depending on which way you move the scroll) the size of the print you are trying to read.

I don't really know the answer, however I have noticed with both dogs and horses that they tend to carry more coat as they get older. Not to extremes though.

I take it "nose plugs" would not be sufficient an answer :rolleyes:. Nose on paws, the cute little blighters Thanks Midol. That'd be great.

I'm guessing you're a Melbournite, Laeral? Steve and I ran one down here May last year.

My previous girl (avatar .... bless her cotton socks) had almost zip prey drive. Took her to lure coursing one day just to see if I could spike any that might have been suppressed in her life before me. What a hoot!!! Ended up with ME chasing the plastic bag around on the lure. At first she got a bit 'quirky' due to my strange behaviour. Then she ended up just sitting down and watching me. Although I didn't realise that and I ended up doing the whole of the lure course thinking she was just behind me. Provided a laugh for the audience :rolleyes:. I at least have prey drive . My current boy would love it, of that I am certain. But I am teaching him that I control drive satisfaction so it isn't for us. I do wonder if lure coursing causes the dogs to become somewhat over-enthusiastic at the sight and sound of supermarket plastic bags though.

What would you want covered? I hope Midol is making secretarial notes here :rolleyes:

Happy to oblige . Not sure that Steve would have the time though. And he's just been up there recently. You wanna organise it? :rolleyes:

What? You don't believe me? :rolleyes: ETA: Stand me next to K9 Force and I appear as very quiet by comparison .

Answered . You must have caught me in one of my infrequent talkative moments.

I trust they at least compensated you for the expense you'd incurred? Poor dog , but glad it turned out that he was actually ok.

Goldens - sorry for the trouble you are having with your sight and for your arthritis. It must prove very frustrating. I completely understand now why you type in caps although unless and until everyone on the board knows you (and there will always be new people coming in), they will think you're yelling. Why not put a "notice" as your signature to the effect that you type in caps due to a sight impairment, not because you're yelling. That way people won't take it as such and you won't be left explaining all the time .

Ozjen - I've selected a few parts out of your post to quote for specific reasons. Firstly because of the use of words such as "this day and age"; "old method". These are common expressions used especially by those who vow to the "positive only" (loose term) method. The words when looked at singularly appear to be benign but used within the context they do seem to carry a negative vibe with them, as though applying a method that is "old" is somehow wrong. Sure, administering a correction for unwanted behaviour has been around for decades (wonder why) but being "old" does not render it past its use-by date. Applied well and fairly, it is a method that can achieve excellent results - in some dogs results that would or could not be achieved using positive reward based training on its own. Secondly because any trainer worth their salt will and do use positive reinforcement methods to train young pups. As is mentioned within even just this thread, it is inappropriate to correct a dog for non-compliance of a command it does not know or understand. The commands are first taught using positive reward. It is great that you are achieving success in the training of your dog over these past four years using a clicker to mark your dog's required behaviour. Free shaping is good too, although I do like a good mix of compulsion work as well as it teaches the dog to give relaxed compliance to pressure, rather than to resist it as would often otherwise be its reflex response. This carries over to be of great value in many other instances such as at the Vets. Dogs used to responding to pressure with relaxed compliance are the dogs most likely to be able to be xrayed (etc) without the necessity for sedation or GA (to give one example). There are many dogs out there, whether it be by the innocent errors people have made in the upbringing of their dogs or just by the mere nature of the individual dog who need a correction to show them there is a distinct advantage in demonstrating the behaviour preferred by us. As for the situation described by the OP? I wasn't there so it is incredibly difficult to comment. It doesn't sound great and I agree that if the dog did not understand sufficiently what was required, the correction was unwarranted and probably served to confuse the dog which in itself doesn't help with the training. But I don't think the instructor deserves criticism without the observation from someone who might know more of the dog in question and of training itself. This is not a criticism of the OP who quite rightly questioned what occurred and was seeking opinion for the sake of her and her own dog. But it is not to suggest the "method" was wrong, but perhaps that it was applied incorrectly. I don't necessarily think that what occurred merits the OP leaving the club, although for her to do so is her own choice. Perhaps question what occurred with Management or Senior Instructor and ask whether what the instructor did was appropriate/right and why. But in the end, the OP does need to have confidence in the instruction being given, so choice to move Clubs on that basis is warranted. IMO, one "method" is not better over any other methods. Preclude even one method and the ability to work with all dogs with success is diminished. Sure - stick with the method you use for the dog you use it with as that is working and by the sounds, working well for you. But that doesn't mean that other methods are not right nor appropriate for other dogs.

That's ok Rose. I hope the gentleman and his trainer manages to resolve the anxiety his dogs are experiencing. Good luck to him. Being a War Vet, he gave up so much of himself to help those of us who are blessed with creature comforts and lack of experience in matters of war and loss. To then lose his home. I am so glad that he didn't lose his dogs and can appreciate how important to him they would be.

Ni is a novelty. Min might be wanting to 'check her out' and possibly put her 'status stamp' on her. That I can't tell. Your leadership needs to be intact regardless. Without seeing Min's body language it is difficult to tell more and even what I've written here is merely guess work. ETA: I agree - Min's attention to your daughter has nothing to do with a transfer of love from you to her.

Rish - you seem to be having a few issues with your dogs, going by some of your threads? That's ok, although I feel that the issues could be in some ways tied in to a common cause and it might help you to arrange a one-on-one consult with a trainer/behaviourist. I do find it difficult to follow your threads at times - that's ok too except that it leaves it way open to interpretation and giving advice on that basis is not wise. That and there is much information missing. Just for one example, I don't know who "Ni" is - age etc. etc. etc. You might have mentioned her in one of your other threads, but it is somewhat laborious to go hunting through to back track that info.

Sandgrubber is right - many different tools. As to which one depends on what suits the dog, the owner and the circumstances.

Oh wow ... Tassie. Really sorry for your loss and of course for Golden's loss and anyone elses, for that matter . You know, with all these things, sometimes I feel torn between deciding if I am paranoid or realistic. It really is so hard, if not impossible, to know without the power of hindsight and by then it is usually too late.

BD2 .... Each head collar brand does fit differently. Sometimes in quite noticeable ways, sometimes (to the untrained eye) in less obvious ways. Much depends on the shape and size of the dog's head, length of nose etc. etc. Head collars should be 'introduced' to the dog in a way that will desensitise him/her to having it on and that will build a positive association with it. Even so, this doesn't always work and some dogs will persist in their efforts to remove it.

Bonniedog .... it is so easy for people to give you names and different varieties of tools that you might be able to use, but regardless of which one you chose, it really is about the technique you use with it. And technique is something you learn. Tools mis-used can prove to not only achieve nothing, but potentially can cause damage either to the dog physically speaking, or to your training efforts, or both. I would highly recommend a private training lesson or two (having the time dedicated to just you and your dog has the advantage of you learning much during the lesson time) or you joining a dog obedience school (from which you will still learn, but not as quickly nor perhaps as easily, due to class numbers and high distraction for your dog) so this can be shown to you. Not sure what locality you live in but if you let us know some recommendations to a trainer and/or obedience school in your area can be made. ETA: for giving a dog a good home .

Thanks Kavik. I aim to give a balanced view of them, but a true one. My personal opinion either way doesn't come into it. The students form their own opinions based on the factual information given (and of course from what they then learn further later on). But there are goods and bads and I like to make sure both are talked about and explained. At least that way the students have a platform on which to then investigate further and develop their own opinions and preferences, whatever they might be. Nuances in the different fit of each of the designs/brands and how one might be a better fit for one dog but another for another etc. are also discussed and demonstrated. That is the essence of the NDTF Course. It is about teaching and discussing lots of angles in relation to dog training, psychology, equipment and methods. Showing the good and also where it might go wrong. And letting the students develop their own minds and opinions as they learn more. I don't appreciate organisations or courses that try to tell me how to think. Proper learning should (IMO) be about giving the information as a basis so that one can make up their own mind on it. ETA: Sorry Midol, for the thread hi-jack. Returning over to you .... it is interesting to read your notes .

Hi Tony. Yep, I was. I don't care what the equipment style/type. IMO people should know how to use them properly regardless, as well as the pro's and cons to each. Why and how they work as well as the technique required. I was once told by a well known organisation that they didn't want me talking about PPCollars at an event I was holding. IMO, hiding/withholding information and education on something makes for a worse situation. So whether I like a piece of equipment (personally speaking) or not, it should not preclude from discussion and education. And I have used them from time to time in certain situations - the students are aware of this and I explained the instances to them. The point being that the Joe Public will continue to buy them because Vets and other places will continue to recommend them. We need trainers out there who, even though they might not (or perhaps they do) use them predominantly themselves, they can at least offer advice and tuition in use and fitting to those who have got them and use them on their dogs. ;) ETA: OT but I also tend not to form an opinion about a training item/tool until and unless I have a good idea about how it works, why it works, and the best techniques that go with it. Unlike some orgs and some people.

Thank you for the links Danois. I was interested in both IMHA and IMPA.

As Midol suggests, denied access is different to separation distress. As we can't see nor know your dog, you need to determine that. It may also be the insecurity of being in a less than familiar environment. Either way, what about generalising the locations you work the TOT? Also gradually introduce tie-out in incremental stages as someone else suggesed. Before you get to the stage of leaving your dog on a tie-out on his own, try having a 'stand-in' person stay with your dog while you do it and see if that reduces your dog's anxiety.

What are the early symptoms of this? Or are the symptoms too diverse and obtuse from one case to another?