sandgrubber

This is a BAD NEWS story. Read the ending: "Lucky and Sparkles have been renamed Teagan and Layla, and need a new home. "The new owner would ideally be at home often to give the girls the attention and love they need," Ms McGrath said. Anyone interested in adopting the pair can visit www.petrescue.com.au/view/99794." It seems likely that they will both be PTS soon.

Great post!!!

Agreed. And it's a big problem. If you don't love dogs, you shouldn't be getting a puppy, cute or not. Don't look at the puppy. Try to understand what you'll get when it grows up.

Hey, why does everything have to be a debate? Ok, lots of opinionated people, a controversial subject, off she goes. I would have liked to see more discussion of movement and rhythm as affecting communication with dogs . . . and I'm disappointed that several people jumped on the 'cruelty' bandwagon (in my book, the most serious dog cruelty I see, and I see it regularly, is putting an active, social animal in solitary confinement with little exercise, and then getting mad at the poor thing cause it goes nuts and starts destroying stuff). Also disappointed that those critical of CM didn't pick up on the hardest part of dog training . . . training the owners. From what I've watched of CM, the owners sit and watch in awe, then enjoy a half an hour of dealing with a dog that has been calmed and put in line by calm assertive treatment, delivered in a way that speaks to a dog's brain. But I doubt they have really learned CM's technique . . . which if Gladwell is correct in the 'dance' assertion, is going to be hard to duplicate. I've tried to work with two aspiring dog trainers in my kennel management days: one a CM devotee, one a new-school German with years of Schutz and an emphasis on positive reinforcement via play. Both had great dog handling skills. Both failed cause they couldn't transfer what they know to the dog owners. And I've seen a fair share of my kennel clients go out for training, show improvement for awhile, and then slip back into the 'same old used-to-be'. Dog training requires skill. Dog owner training . . . often requires someone who can talk the spots off a leopard. p.s. thinking back over my own contribution, and the typical Myth Busters crash scenes, I realise I missed a term in the physics argument. Yes, Pressure = force/area and area increases as a squared term . . . so a flat palm is not the same as a knuckle or toe. But it's equally important that force comes from change in kinetic energy, ie, a moving object crashing to a stop and transferring the energy in its motion. Kinetic energy increases as the square of velocity (ie speed) X mass (ie, weight). So, you can do a lot of damage from a fast kick developed from a full leg swing (long swing allows more gain in momentum). (In self defense class we were taught to move into a punch so the aggressor couldn't develop a full swing). And kicking a mobile bit, eg, a tail, doesn't transfer much momentum, so it does little. Jeez. May even be that kicking a small dog so that it flies across the room delivers a lot of fright, but not so much pain, while kicking a massive dog really hits home. Maybe that's why abused ankle biters don't give up. . . they've learned that getting the boot is aggressive, but not dangerous. All in all, I think it's been a good thread, and thanks to everybody for contributing.

Here's a vet's answer . . . from http://www.vetinfo.com/dfetsorb.html When I palpate bitches I suspect that the most common cause of suspected fetal resorption is imaginary fetuses in the first place! Some people are better at this than I am, though. Fetuses will normally only be resorbed if they die during the first 1/2 of the pregnancy. It is possible for a bitch to resorb only some fetuses while others go on to be born. The most common causes of fetal resorption are inadequate progesterone levels in the bitch, maternal infectious disease (such as brucellosis and canine herpesvirus), endometrial disorders, developmental defects in the fetus (unlikely to affect a whole litter). Testing progesterone levels in the bitch can be done after estrus even if she isn't bred, due to the persistance of the corpus luteum in bitches. This is convenient, since you don't have to breed her in order to test for this problem. A complete physical exam with a general blood panel is a good idea. Testing for brucellosis and canine herpesvirus might be useful, although most bitches who lose litters to herpesvirus will have normal subsequent litters. Bacterial cultures of the vagina may be useful and in some cases uterine biopsy will be necessary to diagnose a problem. There are reproductive specialists in veterinary medicine, known as theriogenologists. They can usually be found at veterinary schools. It would be a really good idea to explore possible causes of not getting bred in the first place, since I am not the only vet who has palpated puppies who weren't there! Read more: Reproduction - Fetal Resorption

Sorry, I do physics better than anatomy. 'Inguinal' is jargon to me and I can't tie it to understanding of physiology . . . but I think the answer is 'yes'. 'Hard' needs to be defined, and is the crux of the physical argument. I think 'hard' equates to high pressure. Pressure is force/area. For the most part, high pressure is what punctures, breaks, and generally does damage. If you distribute force over a broader area, the effect is much different (eg, snoeshoes don't break through and sink in soft snow, while spike heels may damage a softwood floor). I thump indiscriminately and I get the same response from the dog when I hit the 'gut' as when I hit the 'butt'. Physics tells us that force distributed over a broad area (ie, flat hand slap or normal shoes) produces low pressure, and while it may make a lot of noise, does much less damage that force delivered over a small area (knuckle punch, spike heel, kick with pointed toe . . . or for that matter, bullets). I 'thump' with a flat hand. The dogs' reactions show me that it doesn't bother them no matter where I hit. I'm pretty sure that damage/pain comes from 'pressure' (ie force/area). Area increases rapidly as the region of contact enlarges, cause 'enlargement' generally means width and breadth increase together. Hence 'area' tends to increase as a squared term, and will tend to dominate the force term when the point of contact expands. So it comes down to whether CM does a focused toe kick (high pressure), or broadly distributes the force by using the crook of his ankle (large area, hence may lift the dog, but no high pressure, thus pretty harmless). The videos shown in the anti-CM video show him whacking with an ankle or taking of his shoes to use the crook of his ankle. So my guess is that he may surprise the dog by pushing it or lifting it off its feet, but he's not hurting it as in 'gloves off' knuckle punches. Nor do I see a long, max-speed swing (more physics, but boxing equivalent of a fully developed swing). It would take sophisticate instrumentation to see whether and how soon he puts on the brake when he makes contact . . . but I'd guess that the physical effect is more one of 'tap' and 'surprise' than 'damage' or 'hurt'. Apologies for getting mathematical. And to any mathematicians, apologies for not reducing it to the formula Would you hit him in the inguinal region in the same way? Is it a good analogy?

I'm in the US, but lived in Australia for 14 years. If I hit this regulation, I would simply avoid exporting to Australia. Too much fuss. I've had a not-entertaining time trying to sell a house I owned in Australia while resident in California. Ended up spending hundreds of dollars and tens of hours of time dealing with the fact that WA officials will not accept a California Notary Public . . . because the California NP can only sign on an attached piece of paper and the WA burocrats require that the signature be on the page being notarised. In general, Australian bureaucracy is not flexible and is much better at saying 'no' than saying 'yes'. I would not trust lawmakers to write a law that a quality breeder who has little interest in things legal could navigate.

The Lagotto is often marketed as a medium sized non-shedding dog. My perspective is warped by having lived alongside a lagotto breeder who didn't do much to socialize her pups, and bred for show, not temperament. I ran a boarding kennel for six years or so and saw many labradoodles and spoodles. While many of the -oodles were problematic, I'd say the percent problematic was no higher than what I'd expect from a Lagotto. Key problems are need for grooming and temperament. For the labradoodles, there was an additional problem that puppies ended out becomming much larger than expected. As for a non-shedding dog that doesn't require periodic clipping . . . dream on. It may be no harder to produce a new breed that is solid and breeds true than to revive an endangered breed. Problem is, too many people doing both indiscriminately . . . and not enough people being honest with puppy buyers. . . .or selling through pet shops and other middle men, who prevent needed discussion between breeder and seller.

We need to stand back before forming judgements on CM. He's from a culture (rural Mexico) that doesn't see dogs as sentinent, he relates to dogs better than he does to people (I think a few of us can relate to that), and he has become a TV star, with all the pressures that go with the job. I presume the media prefers the meanest dogs and the most extreme miracle cures . . . and of course wants everything to be resolved in a 30 minute episode. I don't get TV and have only watched a few Dog Whisperer DVD's, which I found impressive. . . though it would be good to see a 2 year on follow-up on the dogs and people involved. I don't think we should get so hung up on passing judgement, and instead focus on learning on what we can learn. . . in my view, the guy has amazing skill in dealing with dog/people problems. I started this thread cause it was great to find an article that focussed on body-language aspects of this skill . . . and cause I'd watched a few people trying to copy the words ('whispers') but not getting the body language (the 'dance'). I'd encourage people to read the article . . . link to a free download provided in the first post in this thread.

My dogs have a strongly routinized schedule and they have a clear sense of meal time. If I'm an hour or two late for feeding, they spend a lot of time looking at me, sitting by the dogfood container or fridge, and otherwise giving hints. I think that's a circadian rhythm with digestive system. Sleep rhythms are more flexible, but seem to have a circadian component. However, the bio-rhythms work along with cues they get from people. When I shared dog care with my mother . . . I'm an extreme early riser and she's not a morning person . . . the dogs readily shifted between my routine and my mother's routine. I think they would naturally rise a bit before dawn, but if early rising means dealing with a grumpy person, they seem happy enough to sleep for an additional couple hours . . . or four hours. I sense that my dogs are highly attuned to my mental state. If I'm having trouble sleeping and, say, am ready to rise at 3:30 am instead of 5 am, they pick up on the mental state and jump all over me in the 'rise and shine' excitement ritual. I can't disguise my state of wakefulness by trying to act like I'm asleep. Perhaps they listen to breathing. Who knows, maybe they sense brain wave patterns. On the other hand, if I get up at 1 am to pee, they generally snore through the whole thing . . . I don't know if this is because they know that peeing doesn't mean getting up, or because they're so deeply asleep at 1 am that they don't pick up my cues. Maybe a bit of both.

Thanks for the post. Interesting! I wonder what 'Northern breeds' means?

In my little world of bitches, this change of chemistry results in everyone humping one another. I've seen a conga line of four in the days when I had four entire girls. The sexual energy can be embarassing, or amusing, depending on your persuasion. But I've never had it turn aggressive. That is all very well until a girl comes into season....changes the chemistry.

I think us humans look at this backwards. The important thing is how it affects the dog. Humans are wimps about pain. Dogs I have known are more fussed by the message that accompanies pain than by the pain itself. Eg, I had a ball-mad Lab who got smashed, full-strength, in the face with a tennis racquet while playing fetch with a teenager. Didn't put her off the slightest. She went right back to wagging with the ball in her mouth, encouraging the kid to hit the thing again. My old girl puts up with some pretty rough bites from pups without flinching. My pup loves a slap on the butt or shoulder . . . regards it as affection. I've seen a dog get bitten bloody by small vermin they are hunting and go back at it with glee. But with most of the dogs I've owned, even a feigned hit that made no contact would have their tail between their legs . . . or even fear urination. From the dog's perspective, physical discomfort seems secondary to the message/context of that pain. Is it is done aggressively, calmly, or playfully, or was it a part of the predator prey battle (with the biter being the prey)? That is what the Gladwell article gets at. I am NOT saying it's ok to hit or otherwise hurt a dog. I'm saying that dogs care at least as much about how it is done than about what is done . . . and that our body language and voice tone matter at least as much as what we say or do to the dog.

I take a smallish deposit . . . mostly to prevent people from 'forgetting' that they have agreed to buy a puppy and leaving me with pups to home at the last minute. I explain that that's what the deposit is for . . . and that it is refundable if they act in good faith, but that I'll pocket it if they muck me around at the last minute. Puppy buyers seem happy to accept this. I have refunded a few deposits . . . for people who have family breakdowns, job losses, transfers, and other events that could be bad for the pup.

I'll bet fast, short replies . .. it's hard to answer all questions in detail when you're getting 10 emails a day. . . . and that happens to the Lab breeders in Perth . . . sometimes it happens when you have no pups

Tools are not methods. Tools alone don't work very well. How does a Manners Minder or anti-bark collar work then?

Oh dear. The old tired battle about positive reinforcement again. Even if you think some of the things CM does are evil (which I don't) you gotta hand it to the guy is brilliant in communicating with dogs. The point of the post was to point out that his special ability was based on highly organised body movement communicates well with dogs. Aidan2 is correct . . . Gladwell also compares CM to a soccer player. I'm not a trainer . . . but found the article fascinating because it gives a much broader, wholistic view on how dogs pick up on humans body language . . . and what sorts of body language are likely to be effective in calming dogs and gaining their respect. If you want to read the article, you can find it on Gladwell's website http://www.gladwell.com/2006/2006_05_22_a_dog.html

sounds to me like the law of common sense, which has somehow managed to make its way into the law of NSW. I don't want to share the road with someone driving with a pooch in their lap. Good on the system for enforcing and insisting on enforcement. I don't know what the law is in NSW . . . but most places I've lived allow dogs in the front seat. I've never heard of anyone getting fined for it. But then, ten years ago there wasn't much enforcement of seat belt violations . . . so who knows.

I've been reading an interesting essay called "What the dog saw" by Malcolm Gladwell (2009 . .. printed in a book by the same name). It attempts to look at Cesar Milan from a dog's perspective. The author consults with, among others, a well known dance movement psychotherapist. Interesting essay, which broadly concludes that CM is a genius at use of body language to communicate with dogs . . . and that what he does is a highly skilled dance that communicates powerfully to the dog. Unfortunate consequence of this is that us people with only normal dance abilites are going to have a hard time repeating a CM performance. Here's a little extract . . . from a section where the author and dance therapist review an episode where CM calms a highly HA dog "Do you see how rythmic it is?" Tortora said. "He [CM] pulls. He waits. He pulls. He waits. The phrasing is so lovely. It's predictable. To a dog that is all over the place, he's bringing a rythm. But it isn't a panicked rythm. It has a moderate tempo to it. There was room to wander. And it's not attack, attack. It wasn't long sustained. It was quick and light. I would bet that with dogs like this, where people are so afraid of them being aggressive and so defensive around them, there is a lot of aggressive strength directed at them. There is no aggression here. He's using strength without it being aggressive." You can find the essay at Gladwell's website: http://www.gladwell.com/2006/2006_05_22_a_dog.html

Kelpies would wither and freeze. It's too farking cold. This year the mushers did most of their running at night because it was above zero during the day and the track gets too soft for the dogs when the ice melts. Nights were cold this year . . . so the daytime melt froze . . . allowing sleds to glide. Hence the record time. There are no breed restrictions on the Iditarod. If you showed up with a poodle team, they'd let you in. The only thing required is that the dogs can run and run and run . . . close to 2000 km. An amazing race. My sister used to live in Kotzabue, where this year's winner comes from . . . she says he is good to his dogs. Yes, I understand, but to me alot of them still look like any number of working cattle dog type crosses we have here. I dont know if kelpies could do the same thing, probably not, but it's interesting how lean and light framed some of those huskies have become to do the job. It was just an observation.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/15/...110315(Reuters) - John Baker won the storied Iditarod Trail Sled Dog Race in record time on Tuesday while becoming the first Alaska Native champion since 1976. He shattered the course record by three hours, finishing the 1,100-mile race in eight days, 19 hours and 46 minutes. The previous record had been set in 2002 by four-time champion Martin Buser. Driving a team of 10 trotting dogs, Baker sledded along snow-covered Front Street in Nome, Alaska, as he approached the finish line marked by a polished, knotted wood arch. He was greeted by drummers and dancers from his Inupiat tribe, and a large crowd of relatives and supporters from his home town of Kotzebue, located about 180 miles north of Nome. "Running a team like this, there's nothing better," Baker, 48, said at the finish line. "This is the way life is supposed to be." The Iditarod commemorates a 1925 rescue mission that sent diphtheria serum to Nome by sled-dog relay. Aside from being the first Alaska Native to win the race since 1976, Baker is the event's first Inupiat victor. The Inupiat are the Eskimo people of Alaska's northern and northwestern coast. Their language is distinct from that of the Yupik people, who are from the more southern parts of western Alaska, and they have common traditions based on whaling and other subsistence food-gathering traditions. Among those celebrating Baker's win was Denise Michels, the first Inupiat to be elected mayor of Nome. "I've waited eight years to tell you this," she said, after hugging Baker. "On behalf of the city of Nome, congratulations on coming to the burled arch first." At the finish line, where Baker received an oversized check for $50,400, keys to a new truck and flower wreaths for his lead dogs, the new champion said he did not realize he was on a record pace until the final hours of the race. "I didn't have any thoughts about breaking the record. That dawned on me last night or early this morning," he said. "Breaking the record was certainly the icing on the cake." Baker is a commercial pilot who flies small planes between rural villages in northwestern Alaska, an area that lacks road links. His home of Kotzebue, a mostly Inupiat town of about 3,200, lies above the Arctic Circle. Baker is one of the few Iditarod champions who lives in a truly rural part of the state. Most top mushers reside along the road system north of Anchorage or in the Fairbanks area, with easy access to supplies, business partners and corporate sponsors. He has been a consistent top-10 finisher over the past several years and placed as high as third in previous races.

Loved the comment that followed the article: Brave man...................I wouldn't dare try to spray-paint a lion................... - (Old) Robert, Worcester UK, 15/3/2011 22:37

When I lived in a kennel zone we got similar 'chorus' behaviour from four neighboring greyhound breeders. The Rotti's next door also sang in chorus from time to time. As you describe, more howling than barking, several dogs together, not annoying .. . doesn't last long . . . not clear what sets it off. I don't remember ever hearing a chorus from any of the boarding kennels. I think it only happens with dogs who have been together for months to years.

It's a progress report from 1999! I'd expect a lot has been learned since then. What I got out of the report was that someone really wanted to keep their study dogs going (understandable). They had gotten some interesting results that suggest things and may support the hypothesis they were testing (unfortunate. . . I would much rather see someone trying to falsify the hypothesis). The anti-vaccine crowd has come in for a lot of debunking in the US lately with widespread acknowledgement that the results supposedly linking autism to vaccination were cooked, invalid, and unable to be replicated . . . causing great waste of money and resulting in many kids getting infectious diseases cause their parents had been scared off vaccines.

It's not clear to me whether they're looking for a pet sitter or a way to rehome. The pet forum on the local Craigslist may be worth a try. It's usually full of lost animal listings, pets needing new homes, etc. Listings are free. http://neworleans.craigslist.org/pet/