sandgrubber

Said goodbye to Bonza this afternoon. She developed a small lump on her belly. The vet aspirated it and found the wrong kind of cells. She had been waggy, but clearly uncomfortable. There seemed no hope of getting better and certainly of getting worse. Sad... but relieved it's over.

A couple years ago I bought an ESS, and, as I don't know a lot about the breed, have joined a couple of Springer FB groups. I am absolutely amazed by the diversity of the breed. Seems like it's more of a landrace than a breed...straight long coats, short curly coats, broad chests, narrow chests, big boned, little boned, even some legs that are very long or quite short. (Everyone, however, seems to have difficulty with pulling on the leash). The question of pedigree is mostly politely avoided. When it does come up it's usually a pedigree advocate scolding. I suspect that papered dogs are in the minority. I would love to put up some surveys to see if HD, blindness, etc. are significantly lower among the papered dogs, but I sense that such questions are not permitted. Are other breeds the same? Is this a situation created by increasing numbers of rules, use of Limited Register, and exclusive attributes? If so, I think the Kennel Clubs are digging their own Graves.

Thanks for the suggestion. Worth a try, but didn't work. I've had three vets do clinical inspections... all agreed that she shows a little pain in the shoulder, none in the paw. Toothpaste didn't show anything irregular on the pad, though she wagged a lot when I put it on.

You're not alone. I'm going through this now with Bonza. The vets can't figure out what is wrong with her. She has avoided putting weight on her left front foot for a couple of months now and her muscles are atrophying. She mostly just lies around, but still eats regularly and wags. Sometimes breathes heavily. If it were osteosarcoma she should be dead by now, and X-rays show no signs of it. It's so depressing to watch her, yet I can't say for sure that she's in pain, and I worry that pts would be more to ease my anxiety than to end her pain. The vets seem to be clutching at straws. They suggest expensive tests, but when I ask if the things they are looking for are curable, they say no. Nor can they say whether the test will yield a clear diagnosis. She's 10 yr 11 mo.

IF I SHOULD GROW FRAIL If it should be that I grow frail and weak And pain does keep me from my sleep, Then will you do what must be done For this – the last battle – can’t be won. You will be sad I understand But don’t let grief then stay you hand. For on this day, more than the rest Your love and friendship must stand the test. We have had so many happy years, You wouldn’t want me to suffer so. When the time comes, please let me go. Take me to where my needs they’ll tend, Only, stay with me till the end. And hold me firm and speak to me Until my eyes no longer see. I know in time you will agree It is a kindness you do to me. Although my tail its last has waved, From pain and suffering I have been saved. Don’t grieve that it must now be you Who has to decide this thing to do. We’ve been so close – we two – these years, Don’t let your heart hold any tears. Julia Napier, copyright 1999

IMO, stuff like this kills the Kennel Clubs. They become one more mindless burocracy. When it comes to working and sporting dogs, there are so many excellent dogs that can never have pedigree papers.

So long as his body condition is good, I wouldn't worry. I've never had Newfs, but have raised many Labs. Pups go through periods of not wanting to eat a lot. It's far better to be a little skinny than to grow too fast or get fat

As a Labrador breeder, I looked for "good bone", as in large and solid. I've stepped away from the breed a bit, now have a field bred Springer (ESS) that I'm thinking of breeding. Which means asking myself what to look for in a stud. Look at photos on Springer FB groups I see a wide range in build types. I've begun to wonder if a more wirey frame (think kelpie) isn't better from a structural and health perspective. Seems like the lithe breeds have fewer problems with hips and elbows. Is that going to be true of individuals within a breed as well? Opinions?

15 weeks, or 15 years? I suspect autocorrect has been at work

... another Frenchie breeder looking for free veterinary advice and vanishing when advised to see a vet?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/rural/2020/11/sheep-and-dog-best-friends-escape-home-find-online-fame.html A sheep and a dog who are best friends managed to escape their home and go into town for an outing. Graham the lamb and Charles the dog live with Gareth Richards in Onemana in the Coromandel....

How are the pups doing?

I'd imagine prices have been changing with all the disruption to air travel. Best to get fresh quotes.

Follow up. I took Bonza to a vet in a different practice. No conclusive diagnosis. He says the x-rays don't rule out osteosarcoma. On the off chance that some sort of infection was involved, he gave me a 21 day course of clavulox. Bonza seems to be getting better, very gradually. At least she's more cheerful and putting a little weight on the foot. I've decided it's better to wait until this is more resolved to write to the practice manager of the first vet.

If you see signs of dehydration (google if you don't know what they are), go to an emergency vet. Not something that can reliabily be diagnosed by misc people over the internet. At 13 days dehydration can be fatal.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/17/pet-flea-treatments-poisoning-rivers-across-england-scientists-find?CMP=twt_a-environment_b-gdneco

I doubt anyone can answer that. Sometimes you just have to shrug your shoulders and wonder

Interesting article. I think the last paragraph is the most important : Although merle is one of the more popular coat patterns of dogs, it is not without controversy. Merle-to-merle matings can result in double merle (MM) offspring that have ocular (including blindness and microphthalmia) and auditory defects; this is possible even for merle-to-cryptic merle matings. We hope this work will raise awareness among breeders that there are merle varieties that do not fit the standard phenotypic description and that this knowledge will prevent undesirable matings and mischaracterizations.

BTW, to my knowledge, there are no open breeder's forums. The Animal Rights community makes it impossible for them to exist. Posting access to the DOL Breeder's Community Forum is by application, and approval is generally restricted to pedigree breeders registered with a canine body that issues pedigrees. If the OP had established her/himself in that community and made it clear that they are working with a vet(s) this discussion would have gone differently.

I've been in this group for years. If you wish to avoid the sort of advice you have gotten, make it clear that you are acting on veterinary advice, but hope someone can clarify details (or some such). It's pretty common for people to come online and ask the group to act as a substitute for seeing a vet. Often that does not fly well.

I don't have a big problem with genetic testing so long as they don't say carriers can't breed. There are now so many tests on the list that few dogs have an entirely clean slate and breeders are forced to be realistic... and it's worth avoiding breeding carriers of rare but serious diseases. It's not all that expensive, and one swab can do it. The fact that the genetic testing industry is largely unregulated does bother me. It's annual eye exams that I find unreasonable. In gun dogs most of what they examine for is extremely rare, except in mild forms, and many eye problems don't show up until 6 or 7 years of age. Not everyone has a veterinary optometrist nearby.

Bonza has had a severe and hard to diagnose limp (front left) for a couple of months now. X-rays inconclusive, but don't suggest osteosarcoma. Cartophen and Meloxicam don't help much. On my 3rd and most recent vet visit the vet gave her a couple jabs of a painkiller,which I thought she told me was codeine. She told me that it would make her drowsy. It damn near killed her. Poor girl. I found her the next morning lying outdoors with dew all over her. At first I thought she was dead cause she was unresponsive and her breathing was hard to detect and she felt cold. When she did awaken, I assumed something associated with the limp was killing her. It turns out she was given the maximum recommended dose of a synthetic opiods called Vetergesic...commonly used for post operative pain relief. The warnings that go with the stuff are dire. I am furious at the vets for 1) prescribing it at all... it's active for less than 24 hours so what's the point; 2) going for maximum dose; and 3) only telling me that it might make her drowsy. Mostly I'm just venting. I'm changing vets and getting a second opinion on the limp. Does anyone think there's any point in laying out my reasons for doing so to the practice manager?

No. Sadly IMO, the ANCK will not give papers unless both parents are registered. Some other sort of papers could be done up but they won't cut the mustard with the pedigree world.

Given high puppy prices and the popularity of Frenchies, you should be making good money on puppy sales. No need to cut corners. Go to a proper vet for advice and if that doesn't succeed, get a second opinion or consult an infectious disease expert. It sounds like something is out of control in the environment you manage. Yes, the dog version of Fenbenzadol is expensive, but is the dose/absorption etc right when you use a goat formulation? Etc.

Health testing is something of a sacred cow. My reading is that,at least in gun dogs, the required annual eye checks do not contribute a lot to health, and become a serious barrier to many would be breeders who live a long way from major cities.