Devices To Stop Pulling

[poodlefan]

A pet supply store is there firstly to make a profit. Referring people away from the store does not make them a profit.

It does if the person gets what they need Gayle - they come back. Selling someone a item they don't need and that won't work doesn't. Most of my local pet stores have the brochures for trainers on display on their counters.

Did you see what I wrote about clicker training for loose lead walking.

Edited December 29, 2007 by poodlefan

[Gayle.]

One of the most effective training methods I've used and seen used to eliminate pulling on the lead is clicker training.

I have read about it but not a lot and it's something I've been meaning to do more of this summer while dog club's closed. I don't really understand how it works which is why I need to read more about it, also I have a friend who has clicker trained her dog for obedience and agility and I need to talk more to her.

Many new puppy owners do not know anything.. That is why my puppy pack is something like 30 pages long

The breeder we bought Benson from is a scientist in animal behaviour and studies the relationships between humans and their pets. She gave me a very long booklet she'd written with a lot of good advice and basic obedience training it in, and I often refer back to it. When I first joined DOL I asked about taking a pup out in public and was firmly told that no way should I be taking a 10 week old puppy anywhere in public until he'd finished his course of vaccinations....he would have been well past 16 weeks by then. I contacted the breeder, she told me different and gave me very valid reasons why.

[Poodle wrangler]

I had some trouble with loose leash walking with our standard poodle, despite going to local obedience.

I'm sure I would have benefited from 1:1 training, but couldn't get a recommendation for someone in my area (alot of money to waste if the trainer's no good), so went back to "by the book" methods. Got there eventually. Is fine if you have the time and neither you or dog will suffer.

Have a look at the dog's face if they're doing the "waltz" --> I never saw one who was unhappy, they usually seem to love it and have big "smiles" on their face. It's quality time with their human. Most people don't do training to this level unless both owner and dog enjoys it.

It's not for me, but one of my dogs would love this sort of thing- he loves to do basic training and simple tricks. If I ask him to sit, he looks at me afterwards, ready to go, as if to say, "What else can I do? Let's go!" :D . The other dog is laid back and not so interested.

[poodlefan]

If you are looking for a good book on clicker training, I'd rate Morgan Spector's Clicker Training for Obedience as one of the best.

There are also a lot of really good training DVDs around these days.

[Gayle.]

If you are looking for a good book on clicker training, I'd rate Morgan Spector's Clicker Training for Obedience as one of the best.

Thanks, I need to place an order with Amazon in the next few weeks, I'll add that one to the list. I can't concentrate on television for very long so I prefer books over DVD's.

[poodlefan]

If you are looking for a good book on clicker training, I'd rate Morgan Spector's Clicker Training for Obedience as one of the best.

Thanks, I need to place an order with Amazon in the next few weeks, I'll add that one to the list. I can't concentrate on television for very long so I prefer books over DVD's.

Check Dogwise too - I often find their prices more competitive for dog books.

[Gayle.]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...ER&v=glance

If that's the one, it's $10 cheaper at Amazon. I often buy $200-$300 of books all in one go so even if one place is a little cheaper than another, it usually works out more economical to get them all from Amazon as they have everything I want and I only pay one lot of shipping.

My 14yo daughter is going to start training our new puppy in obedience and Benson in agility next year, so I'll also be looking for books for her to refer to.

[Erny]

When I first joined DOL I asked about taking a pup out in public and was firmly told that no way should I be taking a 10 week old puppy anywhere in public until he'd finished his course of vaccinations....he would have been well past 16 weeks by then. I contacted the breeder, she told me different and gave me very valid reasons why.

Don't recall the thread - looked for it, but couldn't find it. But there have been oodles of threads on the same topic and I know a search using the DOL search engine will show you that there are many of us who advocate careful, wise and broad socialisation experiences during the pup's critical period - along with discussions on "why".

Edited December 29, 2007 by Erny

[Gayle.]

Don't recall the thread - looked for it, but couldn't find it.

It was part of someone elses thread, I think.....on the same topic. I was told don't take the pup anywhere and especially don't put it down on the ground. Now, I dunno if you've every picked up a 10, 11, 12 week old Aussie Shepherd pup but he was no lightweight.

I was worried enough to contact the breeder as I'd remembered her saying something about getting him out and about and socialising him. Chatting with her is always a good thing as she's very knowledgeble and very sensible. In a nutshell, she told me that more dogs get killed through not enough socialisation than will ever die of a disease they'll pick up from being out in public. She also advised that I don't let him sniff around other dogs droppings or let him run with stray dogs, but any wide open spaces, beaches, parks and any places that he'd get to experience new things and meet people was a good thing, not something to be avoided. And she also advised I don't carry him as I'd probably give myself a hernia ;-)

Anyway, that's old news but it also taught me something very valuable....and that is not to take anything I'm told on these forums at face value. Do my own research, ask my own questions and use the other resources I have to make my own decisions about my dog.

I have another question about vaccinating a pup, but it's not for here and I'm almost not game enough to ask it on DOL for all the conflicting advice I'm sure to be given.

[Erny]

Anyway, that's old news but it also taught me something very valuable....and that is not to take anything I'm told on these forums at face value. Do my own research, ask my own questions and use the other resources I have to make my own decisions about my dog.

Well - keep up all your readings and you're sure to come across many many more conflicting information.

I have another question about vaccinating a pup, but it's not for here and I'm almost not game enough to ask it on DOL for all the conflicting advice I'm sure to be given.

People better not try to help you with giving you free information then.

Don't know what your expectations are GayleK ..... but on more than just a few occasions (not just in this thread), you've been really insulting to the same people you are using to self source. Little thanks that is to those who have donated their time to you.

Edited December 29, 2007 by Erny

[Rusky]

In a nutshell, she told me that more dogs get killed through not enough socialisation than will ever die of a disease they'll pick up from being out in public

there are heaps of articles, this is one about early socialisation

http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/earlysocialization.html

Ian Dunbar has written some great stuff and I should have the links but can't find them, if I find them I will pm you. Some people do take puppies to the ground choosing to risk disease against an unsocialised pup, many others take the pup to the ground but don't let their feet touch the ground. All of the people I am speaking of have identical dog education they just prefer not to take a risk and it is a personal choice. There is so much you can do without putting the puppy at risk of disease. I see so many ill socialised adult dogs but a lot of the damage has been done when they were tiny pups. I would never buy a pup from anyone who didn't raise the litters in the home, preferably with children and lots of normal social activity within that home. Socialisation starts at birth and continues on.

[jaybeece]

I have another question about vaccinating a pup, but it's not for here and I'm almost not game enough to ask it on DOL for all the conflicting advice I'm sure to be given.

But everyone who gives you advice will be doing it based on their own reasons, knowledge and experience. Just like your breeder did.

If you ask a question on a public forum then you're bound to always get different answers, it's up to you whether you take it all on and to choose what fits best in your situation. There's often no right or wrong answer to anything in life, living animals in particular.

Personally I think the diversity of opinion on this forum is great as it really makes you think and develop your own answers better. I'm a much better dog owner after paying attention to what the experienced and even not so experienced people have to say. Doesn't mean they're always right or that I always agree, but it certainly broadens my point of view significantly and often leads to more questions I've never considered before.

Also I agree that a good sales person will do what's right for the customer. I worked in an aquarium for a while and always did right by customers as the well being of their fish was far more important to me than making a sale right then and there. My sales never suffered for it, in fact they were increased because customers trusted me and would stick with the shop as a result.

[Mystiqview]

In a nutshell, she told me that more dogs get killed through not enough socialisation than will ever die of a disease they'll pick up from being out in public

there are heaps of articles, this is one about early socialisation

http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/earlysocialization.html

Ian Dunbar has written some great stuff and I should have the links but can't find them, if I find them I will pm you. Some people do take puppies to the ground choosing to risk disease against an unsocialised pup, many others take the pup to the ground but don't let their feet touch the ground. All of the people I am speaking of have identical dog education they just prefer not to take a risk and it is a personal choice. There is so much you can do without putting the puppy at risk of disease. I see so many ill socialised adult dogs but a lot of the damage has been done when they were tiny pups. I would never buy a pup from anyone who didn't raise the litters in the home, preferably with children and lots of normal social activity within that home. Socialisation starts at birth and continues on.

It comes down to common sense.. If you take an unvaccinated pup to an offleash park for instance, then you are courting trouble. I am not sure if my local markets still allow dogs (there was talk of stopping dogs in October), but I take my puppies to the markets from 8-10 weeks. I have borders and they are not that small at that point either. I carry them through the markets. They get the sights and sounds of the markets without being on the ground. I also take my puppies to a vetinary run puppy school from 8 weeks. There is also a local private establishment that runs puppy schools in a private residence. That is also good. The obedience clubs do not take puppies until at least 12 weeks of age. IMO that is too late for puppy socialisation. The obedience clubs have no say in that as it is park of the ANKC and CC rules of association.

Each person and breeder are different in their opinions. I am different from most in that I have virtually an open house when I have puppies (thanks to an Ian Dunbar seminar I went to). They are generally trusted friends. Prospective puppy buyers are also welcome, strictly controlled conditions. Other breeders quarantine their household until the pups are gone. Unless there is a parvo or like outbreak.. the risk of getting those is far less than poor unsocialised puppies. Especially with Aussie Shepherds and Border Collies.

Training is the same.. There are numerous schools of thought and programs. The key that was brought up on another thread was if you choose a program, stick with it for a good time before changing to another program. Those people who take a little bit from one and a little bit from another, are generally the ones that come unstuck somewhere along the line. Programs are there because they are a system. A system works if it is is followed. And in training, most systems allow some flexibility in their school of thoughts for those people who may not be able to do one point or another.

Someone posted the comment that on a forum there are so many ideas and opinions. You get a room full of trainers together and you will get the same. The difference with the web is it is accessible to far more people. There are some things like Erny has said are better shown than tried to write out in story book. And I agree 100%. Some things you have to actually do yourself. I went to a Susan Garrett agility camp a number of years ago at Uralla. I did not have an agility dog, and while I understood the theory, around day 5, I was starting to lose it because it involved in the people working with their dogs. Agility is the same as show jumping. You need to know your horses stride to best guage the distance between the jumps to get them in.. That I understood as I did some show jumping years ago..But unless you are there doing it with your dog, the theory is then hard to follow.

Basicly, Forums are great for bouncing around ideas. You may never use the information you read, but like Rusky said, it broadens your mind.

[ILFC]

Gayle K is your point that the OP was asking what equipment to refer to customers? Because having read through the thread- if this is your point then I agree. If you go into a pet shop to buy equipment- you aren't asking to be referred to a trainer.

I think if you go into a pet shop to buy equipment, a responsible staff member will refer to a trainer if that's a more appropriate solution than buying a quick fix device. People walk into pet shops wanting miracle cures. Staff with a dog's welfare in mind will refer to trainers if that's what is needed.

Case in point today. Owner of one year old "spoodle" (as yet not successfully toilet trained ) who wanted a citronella collar because her dog barks at people walking past the window. Dog has never attended training, chews everything and mouths the 4 year old. Does the dog need a collar or does the owner need education?

I know what you mean and I understand what is right but I also know the general buying public. Also, why would I listen to someone in a pet shop- their usually fifteen year old girls. (Obviously not in the case of the OP) but you know the general age of staff of for example PP. Also, there is a problem with referring to trainers- do you know how hard it is to refer to a successful and reputable trainer? What's to stop staff referring one for their own gain, like a comission? How do you judge a sucessfuk trainer? How does person A or B? Not everyone lives on DOL.