An Idea; "the Ultimate Dol Raw/prey Diet Information" Thread

[Guest Tess32]

PF - prey model only. I've already talked to Barfies :rolleyes:

I don't really know what mine would be classified as - they are mostly fed half or quarter chickens, lamb necks, tongue and meaty meats, and offal. But I do give them vegies a couple of times a week.

[poodlefan]

PF - prey model only. I've already talked to Barfies :rolleyes:

I don't really know what mine would be classified as - they are mostly fed half or quarter chickens, lamb necks, tongue and meaty meats, and offal. But I do give them vegies a couple of times a week.

You're a BARFer. Mine only get veggies (and meat, offal etc) once every 3 days.

[Amstaff Shane]

My main question is - I know the prey model diet is based on species appropriate food (again based on the Wolf or other similar carnivores). Dogs differ from wild animals in that A) most are less active and B) They get daily food rather than having to gorge and then recover for a few days. With relation to this, does this effect how dogs would cope with the huge amount of protein?

Also I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has raised a puppy purely on prey model and what was fed.

From what I've read;

There is no general agreement among expert nutritionists regarding what constitutes “too much” protein in the dog’s diet. Research shows that dogs have a high capacity for digesting and utilizing diets containing more than thirty percent protein on a dry weight basis. (Dry weight basis means the food with no moisture present. Dry dog food in a bag usually has 10 percent moisture and canned food has about 74 percent moisture.) If left to catch and consume prey to survive, as wild canines do every day, dogs’ diets would be even higher in protein than what is generally available commercially.

[wylie]

I am pretty much a prey /raw feeder.

Mine get lamb parts and hearts, chicken carcasses and parts, beef bones and parts, emu bones pork bones and parts and heads are good fun. Anything i can get fairly cheap. Whole eggs that they nick. Occassionally tins of salmon or sardines.

My pups are raised with more raw than kibble. Kibble is only given as new owners want an easy way to feed. But those pups i keep go onto meat meat and more meat.

No smelly breath, good poops etc.

Mine get no vegetables at all.

Occassionally one of the chickens will end up in the runs and after the chase and hunt its all gone.

If we are tight for dosh they do get kibble and mince but it is more mince than kibble.

The only additive is either Royal Jelly or Salmon Oil capsules.

[Sayreovi]

I used to feed BARF but changed to a prey model diet.

The dog which was the main reason i started on BARF stopped eating veggies but loves his meat so i switched

[Amstaff Shane]

I used to feed BARF but changed to a prey model diet.

The dog which was the main reason i started on BARF stopped eating veggies but loves his meat so i switched

Have you found any differences at all after the switch?

[Sayreovi]

I used to feed BARF but changed to a prey model diet.

The dog which was the main reason i started on BARF stopped eating veggies but loves his meat so i switched

Have you found any differences at all after the switch?

No food left over now :rolleyes:

One dog stays in great condition on the smell of food so his condition doesnt count, but my other didnt get the best start (he was sick when i changed) so it will be awhile before i see some results.

[Tiggy]

I would love to know where I can get whole rabbits to feed my boys. I'm in Perth - anyone have any idea?

I'd love to feed whole rabbits to but the only rabbit I've seen is the farmed rabbit at the butcher which is $20 a kilo. On Sunday Sophie was chasing a wild rabbit, she didn't catch it and I don't know if the wild ones are safe to feed. I think this post is a great idea. I've fed BARF for a few years and have recently cut down on the vegies I feed but am still nervous to cut them out completely. :rolleyes:

[B-Q]

you'd think rabbit would be cheaper really.

Like lamb shanks, I remember when they were just dog food and dirt cheap, not naymore.

I'd love tpo get some rabbit for Buster to see if he likes it, which I can imagine he would. I much prefers lean meats and vegies over anything else.

When we had a compost bin it was so hard to keep him out of it lol.

He also gets egg or sardines over his kibble every few days.

[Guest Tess32]

That's the problem I found actually when considering prey model. In the US it seems easier for them to feed whole prey. Here there is really only chicken that is cheap enough to do regularly, and maybe fish. Even quail is so expensive.

Maybe everyone could write down the cuts of meat they feed?

[~Anne~]

To be blunt... and in my personal opinion, I think many consider for too long the dietry needs of a dog. I feed, like someones sig says, "what my dog does best on". I term it raw but I am sure it will be labelled something else by the nutrition nazis.

I feed raw minced meat, some veges, sardines, raw eggs (not with the shell), plain yoghurt, diluted pet milk and a handful a kibble a day.

I can't even imagine trying to feed a Pug a carcass of anything. The pug is nothing like a wolf. I think we need to set a sensibility here on the 'descended from wolves' theory. Sure, they most likely did originally descend from wolves, but thousands of years of specific breeding and the fact that these dogs have been domesticated for thousands and thousands of years has altered them a great deal.

I understand that I descended from Neanderthal man (this is the closest to us at any rate, but they go back even furhter then this)..... but I can tell you now I don't have much in common with that man today.

Back on to 'Prey ' feeding. Can someone explain, in simple terms, what it is and what the theory is behind it? This term is a new one for me.

[Guest Tess32]

Puggles - the 'current' thinking in some areas is that while yes their conformation and form has changed since domesticated, their um, 'insides' haven't.

Prey model is generally 80% meat, 10% edible bone and the rest offal etc. No vegies, no yoghurt, only natural and species appropriate foods.

[~Anne~]

Puggles - the 'current' thinking in some areas is that while yes their conformation and form has changed since domesticated, their um, 'insides' haven't.

Even though their physical 'insides' would remain similar or the same, their nutritional needs are vastly different. I don't think wolves ate everyday either, let alone twice a day, although I could be wrong.

Prey model is generally 80% meat, 10% edible bone and the rest offal etc. No vegies, no yoghurt, only natural and species appropriate foods.

Isn't the theory with raw (or barf??) that 'in the wild' dogs would have eaten animals, including stomache content that contained vegetable and plant matter. The carcasses that people purchase, I presume from a butcher, would be gutted wouldn't they?

Edited February 19, 2008 by Puggles

[Guest Tess32]

I don't know if their nutritional needs are really that different. Their natural diet can still only be raw meat, edible bone and offal - it would only be the amount that differs and the vegetable argument. The main argument is whether dogs are true carnivores or omnivores.

Re stomach content, I have read that with small animals like rabbits most carnivores do consume the stomach contents, but that with larger animals like deers wolves tend to shake it out and only eat the lining. In the Lonsdale book it explains what captive carnivores consume and most appear to leave the gizzards and not eat them.

Yep most are gutted so I add offal to the diet.

[~Anne~]

Thanks Tess. I guess I'll sit back, read and see what I can learn about it all.

[rose of tralee]

Tess, I'm in a bit of a hurry, got to get off the dial up: re protein....by the time you account for the high percentage of water in meat, the protein numbers are way down. They'd be lower again as a percentage of the total weight of a portion if the meat comes attached to a bone, wholly edible or not. And of course the quality of prey protein is as it should be.

[Vehs]

oh where is Tracy?? She is very informative on prey model diets; worked with wolves and I imagine her pup (who is probably 1-2yrs old now) was brought up on it.

will PM her

[hopenfox]

I think this is a great idea! And I definitely think there needs to be a part about raw/prey model myths - some people have some really weird ideas! I also love this calculator - perfect for working out amounts to feed when you're just starting, then it can be adjusted up or down later...

Also a section of suitable links like this one, this one and this one, to help cover the basic FAQs...

And I love this place for recipes!

[aranyoz]

I am not sure if what I feed could be termed a prey model but it is also not BARF.

We feed a staple of raw chicken frames, but also feed venison necks & ribs when doe culling is in progress (not the fawning season), lamb off cuts, small amounts of offal, and the occassional beef bones. I have not added whole fish as my dogs turned their noses up at them.

Very occasionally they get yoghurt.

Edited February 20, 2008 by aranyoz

[JENCOL]

I find the hardest thing with a Raw/Prey model diet or a Barf diet for that matter is the availability of appropriate foods. I used to have a great supplier of rabbits however am no longer able to get these. Most of the off cuts etc available at butchers and supermarkets in my area are so finely trimmed that it simply is bone left with no meat available. My dogs do get chicken carcass' regularly as they are easiest to obtain. Out of desperation I am back to feeding part raw and part dry whilst I search out sutible supplies who don't over price things!

Rabbits locally from butchers are skinned and so expensive that I wouldn't buy 1 to feed myself let alone the dogs!

Any hunters out there in the gippsland area who go bunny hunting please PM me!!!!!