Training Class For Aggressive Dogs

[Erny]

I'll volunteer Roggie He's gotten really good at one on one situations & I can take him for walks now without too many incidents (thanks erny!!!), but since MrJames has gone to Adders, I've been a lazy cow with actively going to training on Sundays & therefore he hasn't been tested much in group situations.

Erny, do you think something like this would be a positive for Rogs?

It could be, MsJames. All the other dogs need to be assessed to decide that but it wouldn't be without risk and that makes me a bit uncomfortable. Admittedly, my preference is to mix with another 'seasoned' dog who couldn't really give a rats. One dog first. Then two. Etc.

This exercise, IF it comes off, needs very careful orchestration.

Edited June 11, 2008 by Erny

[wolfgirl]

Kelpie-i I would be interested in this for Bear, as you know he was the most placid and easy going dog when we were training with you but since he has been attacked he can be quite fear aggressive with dominant males. I have worked with him and he was really good but each time he sees a large male dominant mastiff type dog it sets off the trigger for him again. I have alot of faith in you and know that this would be very well orchestrated so if you are looking for volunteers I would definitely love to find out more.

[harper]

Thanks for the informative response Kelpie-i. Really interesting topic.

[helen]

It looks like a mixture of the Ian Dunbar "Growl Class" technique and Cesar Milan's "Power of the Pack" theory. Two worlds come together!

If you read the comments below, he does state "no guarantees", so it may not work for all..but the same can be said for many other techniques.

I would love to try something like this out but would need to check with my Insurance company first

What is Ian Dunbars growl class technique?

[Kelpie-i]

What is Ian Dunbars growl class technique?

Helen, it's not too dissimilar to the one on the clip, however he starts with the dogs on lead, walking around a circle formation. All dogs must have a very reliable recall and sit for his version of the program. After about 15 mins or so, the dogs come off the lead and the same occurs as per the clip, although from memory, if any of the dogs seemed uncomfortable, they were recalled to the owners immediately. There were probably around 7 dogs or so in total.

It's on one of his videos "Aggression" or "Dog fights" or similar title. I'll have to dig it out and re-watch it.

This exercise, IF it comes off, needs very careful orchestration.

Erny this is for sure. Nothing ventured is nothing gained though.

[Cosmolo]

I regularly use my own non reactive dogs with dog aggressive dogs but until the dog progresses it is on lead and generally without muzzle. I find that with some dogs, just wearing a muzzle can change the way they behave so false indications can sometimes occur. AND, i don't want my dogs (who trust me implicitly when working with aggressive dogs) to be bullied/ unprotected by any dog for any length of time- muzzle or no muzzle.

[Rusky]

If you have a group of reactive dogs working together for a number of weeks at distance I would think they build up the loose pack structure ( for want of a better description) they appear to just as the other groups do. I agree with you completely kelpie and will be very interested in your story when you do this. I have been discussing this clip with people since it was posted, we all agree it is an Ian Dunbar method put into practice and really want to see more. I shoild like to know how long they had been working together and other influences.

[Tatelina]

Well there you go!

I'm saying positive - but only in the right environment. Imagine if something went wrong though..and you had a free for all!?

Edited June 12, 2008 by Tatelina

[Kelpie-i]

Is it the fear of the unknown??

[RachelleBuck]

I agree with wolfgirl. I would be willing to give it a go. Libby has improved in leaps and bounds with her DA but still has issues with shepard type dogs. It is worse when on lead. I think in the right conditions this could really pay off.

Keep me posted, it is an interesting topic.

[Cosmolo]

I have a question- who would be willing to use their dogs in this sort of exercise as the non reactive "bombproof" dogs?

I can see how the exercise would be beneficial- but would be hesitant to put my dogs in that situation.

Kelpie i- were you asking me if i was fearful of the unknown?

[Kelpie-i]

Cosmolo, no...I was just asking in general terms.

I'm not sure I would use any "bomb proof" dog if this did go ahead. I would do it as Ian Dunbar did it, but probably on a much smaller scale.

Thanks to those who are willing to volunteer their dogs. I'll discuss it further with a few others and see whether it would be a worthwhile exercise.

[Erny]

Cosmolo, no...I was just asking in general terms.

I'm not sure I would use any "bomb proof" dog if this did go ahead. I would do it as Ian Dunbar did it, but probably on a much smaller scale.

Thanks to those who are willing to volunteer their dogs. I'll discuss it further with a few others and see whether it would be a worthwhile exercise.

Kelpie-i ..... I'm thinking it should be run over a number of routine 'desensitisation' based exercises and from that, a selection of those dogs that might be deemed suitable for the 'get together with muzzle' exercise/s. Those who have dogs who aren't 'ready' for the 'get together' will lose nothing but still gain due to the initial more structured and on lead exercises they've gone through.

It would need the co-operation and agreement of all participants that their dogs might not make the 'get together' group. At least not initially.

Erny

[haven]

Without knowing the history it's hard to say, but I would guess that what we are seeing is closer to the finished product than the beginning of training and one thing I noticed was that all of the dogs exhibited confident body language for the most part, there didn't seem to be any dogs that were actually fearful of the other dogs. None of these dogs are what I would consider to be truly aggressive or with deep seated aggression issues, they look more like they are reactive in a sense of being rude or pushy, bullying types, the kind of dog that would normally cause reactivity in most other dogs resulting in an escallation to the point where the dogs would fight but unlikely to cause any serious harm without the provocation of a dog willing to retaliate.

I've done a lot of this kind of work with Nova and dogs of various levels of aggression, although the other dog is usually on lead. Some of the dogs we have worked with are much like those in the video, although a larger percentage are fearful. I've only worked her with a few dogs that are what I would consider to have really serious aggression problems and in those cases the dogs were muzzled for her protection.

I think this kind of work is in many cases necessary to really rehabilitate a dog aggressive dog, but it's also an accident waiting to happen if you're not very selective about the dogs, and more specifically, the handlers you include. One wrong move and it could easily become a free for all that results in a liability nightmare for the trainer in charge