my_sibe_owns_me Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I have a shy puppy. I have been working with her for a little while and she has gotten MUCH better and at the same time worse.. She doesn't mind being around people but she FREAKS OUT when they try to touch her if someone/group of people are looking at her like they want to pet her. She will relax once someone is petting her and even gave one guy a kiss. However, she will still try to move away if she can and will STILL freak out if that person tries to pet her again. She has been going up to people on her own or when they offer a hand to sniff and will let them pet under her chin...but at the same time she has started growling at some people. Including the people she sees three times a week and feed her treats (very food motivated. She will go to them for food but will try to leave the second she has eaten all the food) I thought we where doing MUCH better till the growling started this week. I still made her get petted by them so she got over it and didn't growl at them again. But I figure if its getting better but worse then I MUST be doing SOMETHING wrong and I need some advice. Shes not a freak about anything else. We can walk by people, play, train, sit and relax. Shes GREAT with other dogs and most new places dont seem to bother her nor does loud sounds ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I still made her get petted by them A fairly stressful experience for her Have you been working in conjunction with a professional trainer/dog psycholgist/behaviourist- whatever they are called over there? If not, please book an appointment. You could benefit from some one on one professional advice about now- to keep improvements happening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my_sibe_owns_me Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 No, I haven't talked to a behaviorist. I think the best we have around my area is Bark Busters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 the best we have around my area is Bark Busters. I have not dealt with them- however I do not think they are qualified to best help you and your dog with this fear/nervousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildatHeart Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 the best we have around my area is Bark Busters. I have not dealt with them- however I do not think they are qualified to best help you and your dog with this fear/nervousness. I second to that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvsdogs Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Have a look at this link & follow the link to apdt to find a behaviourist in your area. http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/fearfulness I would also not recommend bark busters. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I wonder if it's a sibe thing, I don't know too many but the ones I've seen are like mine, they don't really like people in their face. My fellow will wander over for a pat if it suits him but generally he just cruises around he tends to back off if people are too full on with him. I know that they generally aren't "in your face" dogs anyway so perhaps that natural aloofness is a little more so in her than your other dogs? I'm not really sure but I've never really pushed my fellow to be accepting of lots of "hands on" attention, he loves people but I don't mind if he's not all that affectionate with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 We really can't help you too much over the net because this behaviour, as you're already aware, has the very real potential to go off the rails in a direction we definitely don't want it to go. I would stop having other people food treat your dog though. The problem with doing so is that your dog is not necessarily being rewarded for the right behaviour, and in fact it sounds to me as though this is definitely the case. Your dog should be rewarded for confident behaviour. Sounds to me as though your dog is still feeling (and exhibiting) fearful/timid behaviour at the time of being able to receive and eat the treat. YOU be in charge of treats. YOU reward your dog for confident/calm approaches to others (always rewarding for the most confident she is capable of). Use a marker word as a bridge. (Eg "good") Encourage her back to you and treat. In this way she learns what behaviour receives the treat and she receives and eats the treat whilst being back with you and therefore feeling more confident. Also, don't wait until she decides she has to 'retreat' from other people. Allow her a small moment and encourage her back to you before she shrinks away from them of her own accord. BUT, you and your dog would fare much better with some professional one-on-one help. From what I have heard of others, BB is not necessarily the best place to go. Much depends on the expertise of the franchise owner and whether his/her knowledge and experience extends well beyond the teachings the BB franchise arrangements provide. If you are really and truly stuck, PM me providing me with some more detailed background (age; socialisation experience; etc) and I'll see if I can help you with some more 'tips' (which is what they can only be because I can't observe you and your dog myself). Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my_sibe_owns_me Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) Luvsdogs- Thanks for the website. There was only one that came up that dealt with more then clicker training and obedience/agility other then BB. I've sent an email so I'll see if if i get a response and if she is affordable and knowledgeable. Erny- I will give that a try! I didn't think she was learning anything when she was taking food from them. ETA: Tkay- To be honest I wouldn't care as much if I wasn't going to show her. A judge HAS to put his/her hands on the dog. I dont care if shes not an attention whore like my Armani and will be more then happy with her just dealing with people touching her without her freaking out. Edited February 1, 2009 by my_sibe_owns_me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Dogs learn ALL the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Monelite had some issues with Divani not liking to be handled by men when she was younger, and she has improved greatly and has been able to be shown under male judges. Here is a thread she started on the issue http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...p;hl=Divani+man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Luvsdogs- Thanks for the website. There was only one that came up that dealt with more then clicker training and obedience/agility other then BB. I've sent an email so I'll see if if i get a response and if she is affordable and knowledgeable. Erny- I will give that a try! I didn't think she was learning anything when she was taking food from them. ETA: Tkay- To be honest I wouldn't care as much if I wasn't going to show her. A judge HAS to put his/her hands on the dog. I dont care if shes not an attention whore like my Armani and will be more then happy with her just dealing with people touching her without her freaking out. Oh yeah I see what you mean about the handling at shows, it certainly wont help if she freaks out at a show! Hope you can get her a bit more settled then. Is she sensitive to a lot of handling or is it more the strangers? Is there some way of desensitising her to other things on her body using harnesses or backpacks or something? Just throwing some ideas out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my_sibe_owns_me Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 Thanks! The nose hand trick could be very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my_sibe_owns_me Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 Luvsdogs- Thanks for the website. There was only one that came up that ETA: Tkay- To be honest I wouldn't care as much if I wasn't going to show her. A judge HAS to put his/her hands on the dog. I dont care if shes not an attention whore like my Armani and will be more then happy with her just dealing with people touching her without her freaking out. Oh yeah I see what you mean about the handling at shows, it certainly wont help if she freaks out at a show! Hope you can get her a bit more settled then. Is she sensitive to a lot of handling or is it more the strangers? Is there some way of desensitising her to other things on her body using harnesses or backpacks or something? Just throwing some ideas out there. She loves me. I can do anything to her (pull her tail, ears, nose, feet) and still get kisses and tail wags. She doesn't even mind people (Strangers or people shes been seeing for the last 2mos) till they touch her/go to touch her. If you really want her to high tail it as quickly as she can just let someone try to pet her on top of her head or ears! If she SHE goes up to someone to sniff she will let them scratch under her chin for a bit and nothing else. Today she actually let one of my coworkers pet the top of her head and shoulders without anyone making her do it. But the second someone else came over she was up and gone and wouldn't go back to my coworker. Just came next to me and sat next to my leg sorta touching me. I didn't force her to go back over. I dont think any part of her body is sensitive. I can pet her anywhere on her body (including ear rubs and top of her head where she HATES other people to touch her) and she will jut keep giving kisses or that really cute happy sibe look with the ears pinned back and the body gets all wiggly right before they start to roo. lol I love sibes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 She loves me. I can do anything to her (pull her tail, ears, nose, feet) and still get kisses and tail wags. She doesn't even mind people (Strangers or people shes been seeing for the last 2mos) till they touch her/go to touch her. If you really want her to high tail it as quickly as she can just let someone try to pet her on top of her head or ears! If she SHE goes up to someone to sniff she will let them scratch under her chin for a bit and nothing else. Today she actually let one of my coworkers pet the top of her head and shoulders without anyone making her do it. But the second someone else came over she was up and gone and wouldn't go back to my coworker. Just came next to me and sat next to my leg sorta touching me. I didn't force her to go back over. I dont think any part of her body is sensitive. I can pet her anywhere on her body (including ear rubs and top of her head where she HATES other people to touch her) and she will jut keep giving kisses or that really cute happy sibe look with the ears pinned back and the body gets all wiggly right before they start to roo. lol I love sibes. Lol they are the best dogs aren't they! Since it seems to be the strangers it is going to be harder as you will have to recruit others to help you, how does she go out on walks in crowds of people? Does she shy away if they accidentally brush past her or is it when they actually go to touch/pat her? Maybe you could get people to walk past her and brush past her and not stop and desensitise her to that type of thing first. Maybe walk her in between other people and just keep on walking like it's no big deal? That's something I would try if she doesn't freak out so much at the people themselves but when they reach out to her. When she is comfortable brushing past people you could get the people to crouch a bit so their hands brush her as she goes past. Obviously this would have to be repeated ad nauseum and you would have to make sure it doesn't stress her out but without seeing her that would probably be my strategy - works with horses anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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