Lablover Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 What drive are they using to pull a sled?Why do they find it so enjoyable to pull sleds, which in turn leads to their desire to run? I have my own beliefs and theories on this, but I want to hear others views. Pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I agree that it just feels good. My dogs often run just for the hell of it. They are not hunting. I guage their happiness by how willing they are to run a lot of the time. IMO running is not always about prey drive. Parts of prey drive are expressed in chasing, tug, herding, sniffing and the full-blown pounce, kill and consume, but mucking around with another canine pal is often about being social rather than developing hunting behaviours. And hanging out with a person on a walk is about natural canine curiosity for the most part. Swimming is not something done for prey but for fun, just as a dog can decide to run around just because it's fun to do so. People run around for the hell of it as well. As do cats. Running feels good. The oppositional reflex is, I believe, mostly about balance, not necessarily survival. If you fall over in the wild you are not dead meat instantly. Good thing, because baby birds fall and crash-land all the time. But if someone applies STEADY pressure to you, you don't just keep giving, you oppose that pressure to steady yourself. Even Kivi will oppose it and he's a big ball of wussyness. I have heard of people using the oppositional reflex to aid in training a good stay. I think it is all together likely that sledding breeds were selectively bred for a strong oppositional reflex among other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I think it is all together likely that sledding breeds were selectively bred for a strong oppositional reflex among other things. Corvus, that would certainly be of benefit to sled dogs and one of the things they would breed for, however I believe it is also possible to teach a dog (maybe not all, but some) to pull, even if they are not sled dog breeds. Borders collies are not sled dogs and are not bred for sled pulling characteristics, yet they are still used in sled races. They would not have been purpose bred to have OR but would most likely be trained into it. This is why our domestic dogs are most certainly evolutionary wonders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 True, Kelpie-i! Some dogs that haven't a drop of sledding blood in them have a pretty mean oppositional reflex. Or at least like to pull. There are also breeds that are used for carting to take into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I think it is all together likely that sledding breeds were selectively bred for a strong oppositional reflex among other things. Corvus, that would certainly be of benefit to sled dogs and one of the things they would breed for, however I believe it is also possible to teach a dog (maybe not all, but some) to pull, even if they are not sled dog breeds. Absolutely! I did not mean to bring the subject up to suggest that sibes were exclusive to the opposition reflex! Just wondered if they were as a breed particularly prone to it. Admittedly, of the several sibes that I have trained when working at B & T kennels, I didn't recognise a big issue, however I didn't explore for opposition reflex - instead I trained away from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petmezz Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Hi all i love sledding more than any other dog sport, i just have a few things to throw in. prey drive has something to do with the selecting of the dogs to be used. i look at sled dogs and see some of the most highly driven dogs their is, and they have to be to maintain focus. weather the prey drive is used these days while running i don't know maybe i'll know that in a few years. way way back the native people (most tribes) would use the sleddogs to track animals (elk, moose, bears) once close enough the lead dog would be set free to corner the animal (usualy only a bear or cat) allowing the hunter to kill the animal with little fear of their safty as the dogs would distract the animal. the hunter supposidly snacked the dogs with the fresh kill loding the rest onto the sled and going back home. the met was cut and hung on meat racks so the dogs couldn't get it. if you look at that then prey drive once had a substantial part in what made them tick. please keep in mind that huskies have only been in the western world for around 100 years. i beleave pack drive is primaraly what is used while out on the trail. if you ever have the chance to do any distance on a sled you will see them running as one as a group. their is compitition within the team especialy if their are several leders working as team dogs. migratory pattens probably pay a part. i rember reading articals on how old time trappers attempted to breed wolf into their dogs as the wolf suposadly has a superior maping abilitys and thus the theroy the dogs could rember the trappers lines over a lifespan. i know many a musher who will be realy pissed if a handler allowed the dogs to see the dog truck during a race. if the dogs see the truck they quit it's work over time to have a sleep. you can't make them run, you could try pushing a long peace of rope but when they quit they don't go any wear. you all seem so insistant that pulling is a huge part of what they do. i can't rember the name of the musher but they attached cencers between all the dogs tug lines to determan how much weight each dog pulls on a typical distance sled, it turns out each dog was pulling the equivalent to 10 pounds so not much and even less then this on good flat trailes. it is more an endurance sport then a strangth sport. the "it just feels good" theroy?? would you still run and think it feels good with blisted feet, injurd sholders, frost bitten ears (or other parts) saw ankles, stress related problems like diaera. sledding is enjoyable for the dogs but it can also be verry stresfull to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idigadog Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 you all seem so insistant that pulling is a huge part of what they do. i can't rember the name of the musher but they attached cencers between all the dogs tug lines to determan how much weight each dog pulls on a typical distance sled, it turns out each dog was pulling the equivalent to 10 pounds so not much and even less then this on good flat trailes. it is more an endurance sport then a strangth sport. It was Martin Buser. Dogs in the Iditarod these days are built for speed, not strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 My dad was in Antarctica in the 80's and I will have to check with him but most of those dogs were huskies I think, no point mixing other breeds when those are the best suited to the conditions. Those dogs were used for work too they used to go on expeditions out on the ice and they knew if there was a crevasse in front of them they wouldn't go. Mind you some things never change - my dad told me a story of one trip where the dogs caught sight of some penguins and they bolted! The musher had to put his whole weight on the brake and apparently they only stopped just in time before the dogs got the penguins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idigadog Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I could be wrong but I thought that most of the dogs in Antarctica in the 80's were of Greenland Husky heritage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 petmezz, you'd be amazed how good pain can feel when you are driven and your body is full of happy chemicals! You know you're going to regret it when you stop, but as long as you have the energy to keep putting one foot in front of the other the pain can feel pretty good. Within reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I could be wrong but I thought that most of the dogs in Antarctica in the 80's were of Greenland Husky heritage. I'll have to see if I can get some of the pics off him that he took down there, would be interesting to compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotwyr Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I could be wrong but I thought that most of the dogs in Antarctica in the 80's were of Greenland Husky heritage. Pretty sure you are right Idigadog! I have a book called The Last Husky - about the dogs down there and they sure don't look like any Siberian I have or have seen.....def Greenlands from what I remember.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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