Just Midol Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) In the GSD thread going in in general people are claiming obedience is considered work. When someone competes in obedience, do you think they are working their dogs? To me obedience is not work, I don't even know if I'd consider obedience trials to be a sport. It is testing your skills as a handler to teach the dog - but you're not working the dog. Views? ETA: To clarify, I don't consider any sport dog to be "working" with the exception of maybe herding & potentially tracking. If someone told me IRL that they worked their dogs and I asked doing what and I was told obedience I'd feel like slapping them. Edited March 19, 2009 by Just Midol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushaka Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 im not sure the dog can tell if what you're askin it to do is work. Are you mentally stimulating the dog,is it being kept foucussed etc,,this is work... I guess its the age old debate,office work versues the tradie(mmmmmm tradies ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 So any mental stimulation is considered work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke W Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 hmmm... Asking the dog to perform a task or series of tasks it's been trained to do, to the exclusion of other activities, in a specific environment... Yeah - I'd consider it work as it's generally used in the dog world. Is the dog putting on a shirt and a tie and driving in to the office and writing some code? Nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) Are you asking the dog to perform a set task or series of tasks in a certain manner? Does it require training? Why is a dog finding drugs in airport luggage or a dog tracking a lost kiddy's scent "working" when a dog a performing seekback or scent discriminating not. I dont' think obedience is "real work" but there is no doubt in my mind that dogs performing the higher levels of obedience are "working". It's challenging and sometimes quite stressful for them. The difference in my mind is that in dog sports there are no real consequences for failure and the "work" occurs for less time and less frequency. Edited March 19, 2009 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushaka Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) this area isnt my forte,. but i woulndt say a dog being trialed for obendience isnt working ETA cant be bothered fixing the numerous typos Edited March 19, 2009 by Lewis & Lyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) Okay. If someone asks do you own a working dog and you compete in obedience (and only obedience) what would you say? btw, you're suppose to be pretending you own a dog and only compete in obedience... I actually find it quite insulting to those who do work their dogs to consider obedience work... Edited March 19, 2009 by Just Midol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Okay.If someone asks do you own a working dog and you compete in obedience (and only obedience) what would you say? btw, you're suppose to be pretending you own a dog and only compete in obedience... I say no. Unless the dog is in ANKC Group 5 or earns its living, I'd not use the term. I don't know any obedience person who'd say their obedience dog was a working dog in the sense of the term that you are using it. However, when the dogs are doing their thing, they can be described as working. Eg. Gee Fido worked well today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Anything that's not a lap dog is a working dog, the rest is just petty details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 If someone asks do you own a working dog and you compete in obedience (and only obedience) what would you say? I would say "No, however I compete in obedience" I consider work as the dog doing what it was originally bred to do, everything else is a sport. I do flyball, agility and obedience mainly but I've never considered it a sign of their workability. Put a bird in front of them, fire a gun and then I would say I was working them.....until then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushaka Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 if somone said to me they own a "working dog" I would assume,farm etc LM,what do YOU think an obedience dog is doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) This is just semantics isn't it. I sort of see where you guys are coming from now but I still agree with tollersowned. Lewis, competing in a sport... I don't care if the dog doesn't know it's a sport. We're people. We're using people words. We even use pretty awesome sentence structure. Edited March 19, 2009 by Just Midol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mushaka Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 who are we to decide what a dog considers work though? I think anything we ask them to do is based on the want of apeasing humans. What does it matter what it is we asked them to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 It doesn't matter what the dog considers work. If I asked "Do you think your DOG considers obedience to be work?" I'd expect the majority to say yes. But I didn't ask that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) Are you asking the dog to perform a set task or series of tasks in a certain manner?Does it require training? Why is a dog finding drugs in airport luggage or a dog tracking a lost kiddy's scent "working" when a dog a performing seekback or scent discriminating not. I dont' think obedience is "real work" but there is no doubt in my mind that dogs performing the higher levels of obedience are "working". It's challenging and sometimes quite stressful for them. The difference in my mind is that in dog sports there are no real consequences for failure and the "work" occurs for less time and less frequency. I think what Midol is getting at, is not that the dog's themselves think they are "working" but the spin that we put on it. How can someone say that just because their dog can retrieve a dumb bell over a jump knows how to herd sheep, or a dog doing a seekback know to go to ground? JMO ETA: Because I wrote the wrong word Edited March 19, 2009 by tollersowned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 I think what Midol is getting at, is not that the dog's themselves think they are "working" but the notation that we put on it. How can someone say that just because their dog can retrieve a dumb bell over a jump knows how to herd sheep, or a dog doing a seekback know to go to ground? JMO You're comparing apples with oranges there. Gundog folk will tell you that the flashy retriever that does the fast direct line leaps into water (thus gaining the points) to retrieve the bird would either impale itself on a submerged branch or not last the morning on a "real" shoot. The only true test of working ability is working. We've developed dog sports to amuse ourselves, keep our dogs stimulated and keep some instincts alive. Nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke W Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Semantics. We use the term 'work' in obedience. It's just what we do. "Working" your dog. "My dog is working" We don't say "I have a working dog" or my dog is "going to work". There's 'work' then there's 'work'. Semantics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 Ok, I has a better way to phrase my question. Do you think obedience shows a dogs working ability? This is assuming there are no breeds that are bred for obedience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Ok, I has a better way to phrase my question.Do you think obedience shows a dogs working ability? This is assuming there are no breeds that are bred for obedience. More like trainability and.. well... obedience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted March 19, 2009 Author Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) Yeah, but not working ability. I guess when I hear someone say I "work" my dogs I assume they are either actually working in the field OR testing their dogs working ability in a dog sport. I don't consider obedience to be a test of working ability. I guess this is because I probably spend more time reading working related materials and my interest lies in actual work. But like I said, I do have respect for those who can get to high levels in obedience. I don't necessarily think that makes them a great trainer though. Edited March 19, 2009 by Just Midol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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