ILK Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) I've said 3 times now that I'm not talking about the dogs perspective.Well, 4 now. ETA: Rescues can be harder, but they can be easier. Isn't fair to generalise. My rescue is far easier than the first dog I had from a puppy. I don't want to make this debate about rescues because that is not what your thread is about, but of course it is fair to say that if one takes on a dog from a previous handler that created issues, that dog is going to be harder work than one you would get as a pup. I would only take on a dog with an issue. The way I see it, if it is a great dog then someone else will take it home - I'm prepared to put in the hard yards. Back to the original point, Obedience is not work it is, however a sport. It will be harder work for some than others. Edited March 20, 2009 by ILUVKELPIES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 Yeah, I agree. Obedience takes work to succeed, but it is not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILK Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Yey Midol, if there was a "high five" emotiocon, I would post that immediately..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clover Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) If someone asks do you own a working dog and you compete in obedience (and only obedience) what would you say? I consider work as the dog doing what it was originally bred to do, everything else is a sport. I do flyball, agility and obedience mainly but I've never considered it a sign of their workability. Put a bird in front of them, fire a gun and then I would say I was working them.....until then What Tollersowned said . Going to Flyball is just a game for my dogs, not going to work. ETA: I dont think Obedience is 'working' a dog. Working to me is working on a farm, in the Police force, AQIS dogs etc. Edited March 20, 2009 by Clover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 Those who believe an obedience dog is a working dog... Is a show dog a working dog? They perform obedience related commands in the ring. They have to heel and they stack both are obedience commands... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddii Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 If someone asks do you own a working dog and you compete in obedience (and only obedience) what would you say? I consider work as the dog doing what it was originally bred to do, everything else is a sport. I do flyball, agility and obedience mainly but I've never considered it a sign of their workability. Put a bird in front of them, fire a gun and then I would say I was working them.....until then What Tollersowned said . Going to Flyball is just a game for my dogs, not going to work. ETA: I dont think Obedience is 'working' a dog. Working to me is working on a farm, in the Police force, AQIS dogs etc. I've been following, but haven't had the time to answer. These quotes sum up my thoughts. From a HUMAN perspective nothing I do with my dogs is work. They are not 'working' dogs (but do fall within the ANKC Group 5 definition). A working dog is a dog that it's owner involves in making their income. Now, from my dog's perspectives....... CK does not work with or for me, everything is play or he sleeps. (Yes, he 'works well' at agility, but in the same way I can 'work well' on the squash court - it is for fun.) The only time he is working is when he decides (or I tell him) the cat has ventured too far outside or when he is guarding us against evil possums or other intruders. I think he might have decided sheep were work as well, but we didn't stick at herding for long enough. (One day we will live away from the inner city.) EVERYTHING Xena does is work - she is a very serious dog and in her mind it doesn't matter whether she is doing obedience, herding, playing flyball, doing agility or chasing a tennis ball in the park she is working with an amazing intensity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I don't understand this conversation, if you leave the dog's perception of his job out of it who really cares whether someone thinks their dog is a working dog or not? I could say my lap dog is a working dog, he serves the purpose I got him for, same goes for my husky who serves the purpose I got him for, any dog which is serving it's purpose can be called a working dog. If you try to draw lines and create distinctions you are really just pontificating IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I don't understand this conversation, if you leave the dog's perception of his job out of it who really cares whether someone thinks their dog is a working dog or not? I could say my lap dog is a working dog, he serves the purpose I got him for, same goes for my husky who serves the purpose I got him for, any dog which is serving it's purpose can be called a working dog. If you try to draw lines and create distinctions you are really just pontificating IMO. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILK Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 (edited) ... Edited March 22, 2009 by ILUVKELPIES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILK Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Sorry I posted a link above, but after doing a bit of research I wasn't happy with what I posted so I edited & removed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I consider it work, although my dogs would beg to differ. I have a WBC, she loves to work the sheep, it is serious and that is her job. She also loves to play the obedience game but prefers sheep work. Seeing that Sheep work is her preference, is that work or play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 If a husky, was working in the true sense of the word he would be doing his breed specific task. Alot of dogs are engaged in an activity but not working in the true sense of the word.Humans set the scene. For example one may have a good Border Collie dog.Whether the dog is working depends on the owner and enviroment he ends up in.Place the dog in Surburbia and the dog may find himself doing agility,obedience,flyball or hobby herding.All activities. Place the same dog in the bush with a Stockman or Drover and the dog will find himself[if good enough} solely working stock and not just for half an hour here or there. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Place the same dog in the bush with a Stockman or Drover and the dog will find himself[if good enough} solely working stock and not just for half an hour here or there. Tony Regardless of whether it's a half hour or all day, if that is the dogs preferred work or what it is hard wired to do, is other training of less or more value? or more or less work to the dog? For example, if the dog is bred to work sheep, is doing Obedience more of less work for that dog? I know with my sheep dog, working sheep is her preference, she would prefer to do that than eat. So does that mean other training is work for her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 (edited) A "working-dog" depicts a line/breed of dog which was used to assist humans in the work they needed to accomplish. "Work" your dog depicts a dog that is being given a task or tasks to execute. IMO it is context related. I wouldn't split hairs over it. Edited March 22, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 One of my dogs loves to play frisbee. I have taught her many other things with the opportunity of having the frisbee as a reward. Is that work then or play? I think anything we train them to do that is not a natural dog behavoiur can be called work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 To someone who will never own a true working dog then it won't matter, and the discussion will seem useless. If that's the case, then you shouldn't bother reading it. But to those of us who do, the comment arose when someone in the GSD thread stated that their dogs do work... When talking about work from a breeding perspective you are discussing whether the dog can perform the tasks which it is bred for. When you claim your dog works you are implying you are testing their working ability. Obedience is not doing so. So to someone who does not have the desire to own a true working dog and only wants dogs for their own pleasure then drawing distinctions is useless, and I don't expect you to ever understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I think when you have trained and trialled a dog to CDX level you will be taken more serious to comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Just thought I would add, my dogs (I'm sure) would rather have their teeth pulled then be a show dog, so is that work, to my dogs it would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 I think Midol is talking about the use of instincts/drive and suitable 'working ability' in the task they were bred for. Which obedience doesn't test per se. However I do feel that to do well in obedience competition, get to high levels and be a happy 'showy' type worker in the ring, that the dog needs a decent level of some sort of usable drive, as the exercsises themselves are not self rewarding (which many other activities which utilise drive can be fordogs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 (edited) Why will I have a different view? Obedience isn't work, never will be. I'm intending to compete in Schuhtzhund. Schuhtzhund isn't work either. It's sport. ETA: Yes, okay Pax, anything your dog does not want to do is work. Whatever you want. I don't know why I bother sometimes. Edited March 22, 2009 by Just Midol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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