Lower Lumba Disc Disease

[Tara and Sam]

Had the Mobile vet ( he was very good ) out to my male dog nearly 13 years of age

he has had HD for many years ,,and onset of arthritis ( Fish oil caps and Joint Guard given )

I have noticed things happening last few weeks

Very smelly flatulance ( was told by regular vet give yoghurt ) , was licking his penis a bit , and 4 out of 5 mornings huge patches of wee in the bedroom where he slept with us , and has been drinking lots of water ( most of these problems happened night / early morning times )

the licking and weeing and flatulance was all because of his spine problem

( I would never have thought this was to do with his spine )

I couldnt get him to regular vet so called mobile vet

after a hours consult in home , urine was tested and nothing showed up there , no sugar, kidney or bladder infection

tested his back legs and back , lower back it did look as though Sam was uncomfortable

and has said has lower lumba DD and siaticia , along with HD and arthritis

he was a great vet , he said to me just talk to me and tell me about Sam , the more I talked to him and told him things that were out of normal , gave him a better idea of narrowing things down

he gave me a nice weatherbeeta coat for him to wear to keep his back warm , Sam at the moment doesnt appear to be comfortable in it , but am useing a double pola fleece coat I made for him , and lots of blankets at night for extra warmth

( I had considered a heat bed , but he moves and sleeps in differrent beds / rooms during the night , its a bit like musical beds between 2 dogs here )

he has tablets Carprofen 100mg twice a day for 4 days then 1 in the morning for rest of his life

So , anyone have any extra tips of how I can help him , or even what I can expect as he gets older with this problem

Thanks

forgot to mention I have also raised his water bowl and food bowl , so he doesnt add extra strain on his back

Edited July 4, 2009 by Tara and Sam

[persephone]

May I suggest acupuncture?

I have seen it work wonders on a (much younger) dog with painful lower spine probs

[jennajones]

Depending on how much money you can spend, and where you are, is it worth taking an x-ray to confirm dx?

Is the vet suggesting that the dog is urinating in bed because he can't get up, doesn't want to get up, or don't know that he needs to get up?

Is it worth trying for a neuro consult?

[Tara and Sam]

I hadnt thought of accupuncture , will look into it

well I am on a pension , but my dogs will get what is needed , even if I go without

I'm in S.A

I asked about X-rays , and he didnt think needed

as risky when getting older because of the anasethic

he knew we had x-ray's to confirm HD , his manually testing of Sam's back legs and spine area he could feel the problem and discomfort he had

talking to me listening to the way Sam does things like will back out of laundry rather than turn around in laundry , has trouble getting in car , stiff or limping when gtting up

he seemed to think as this was happening more at night and early morning , because his body was more relaxed that is why he was weeing and flatulance more ( almost as if he couldnt control it )

Sam can sleep on the floor next to me , then when I get out of bed he gets up and goes to his pillow

when I come back in room the pillow is wet

I have never caught him doing it , so cant work out if he knows he is doing it or is asleep

sometimes the carpet has a small damp patch when I get up , so I think leaking when asleep

but at the moment we cant confirm this until I catch him doing it

the weeing itself on coverings is not a big problem for me as it can be cleaned , it is more what he is going through

[OSoSwift]

I am going through, a similar sort of problem at the moment, not with leaking urine etc, but our 12 year old Stafford has a spinal problem.

He has arthritic spurs growing between his vertabrae, and allow narrowing of the spinal coloumn. He has had a couple of episodes of extreme pain and screaming just trying to get around. His Xrays showed his hips were actually quite good, but his back was a bit 'scarey', he needed no sedation at all as he is very good to handle and will lay down and stay when asked.

We have been trialling various medications and are finally having a turn around.

He is on Cartrophen injections and was on Rimadyl, but they did nothing. He was concurrently on Tramal (Tramadol) and that was the only thing keeping his pain down. He has now started on Cortisone and whilst still on the high dose, he is like a new dog this morning. I am hoping it stays like this once we start reducing the dose.

We have bought him a heated bed which he absolutely loves, and he gets very disgruntled if you don't turn it on soon enough in the afternoon. I am now hopeful that we have a chance at stabilising him and having some good quality time with him. Last week I was sure I was going to have to let him go.

I am also going to try Devils Claw powder and acupuncture once he is stabilised so I can work out what is helping and what isn't.

Good luck and I hope it all workes out well for you

[Dogsfevr]

My old boy has arthritis in his back.

His routine is

*Bowen monthly

*keeping active as possible,no long laying around time frame & short walks

* we brought a back heat wrap used each night before bed & it has worked a treat.

*Pain killers in moderation,we do use the "pain no more" from the chemist & its also worked very well to keep the pain killers minimal .

[quoll]

Disc problems are serious ones, they can only really be diagnosed with an X ray, or scans. This is costly of course.

Usually a disc problem means a disc has moved slightly out of place and is pressing on a nerve. In the case of lower lumbar that would often result in siatica.

The disc will compromise the nerve root, or pinch the nerve in some cases anti inflamatories are very successful, in more serious cases the nerve is too seriously affected. Surgery is an option to decompress the hot spot, but that would be very costly and depending on the age of the dog it may in fact be worse than the problem itself, as it is very invasive.

It s a difficult one discs as it is very much a mechanical problem, and they do not repair themselves. I do worry about it as I have 3 Dachshunds. Age will take it s toll on all of us.

try to keep your dog as comfortable as you can, pain killers can give releif. Keep an eye out for loss of movements or lameness, this may be a sign of deterioration.

In the case of younger dogs, the best think is always to keep a dog reasonably fit and not too fat, in theory this should in fact minimise back problems, unless their is a hereditary problem in the lines.

[OSoSwift]

You are so right Quoll. Our boy has nerve damage in his left hind leg, and his right is much better, but not 100%. I will not do any surgery on him due to his age and heart, so my option is to give him the best quality of life I can and if the drugs cause a problem with kidney's etc, well we will cross that bridge when we come to it. This evening he actually wanted to play ball and managed to steal it at one stage. He has not done that for weeks and weeks, probably even months.

Our boy has never been overweight, but was very active as a young dog and jumped around a lot. The vet believes that his attitude to life in his early years may be being paid for now. He has been good until the last little bit so I guess I can't complain.

Go the oldies

[Tara and Sam]

Thank you for the replies

my OH was away when I had to call mobile vet , and we were just talking

when Sam whent to regular vet about 2 months ago , that vet didnt mention spine at all , only said arthritis

yet this vet mentioned spine , and I know when he pressed and felt around his lower back Sam did move as if in pain

he also tested his paw , he placed paw downward and if takes awhile to put his foot right it can mean spine also

he told me this before he did it and one paw didnt come back quicker , he also said that indicates spine

he mentioned disc in spine and like it is pinching

rommimum that would break my heart to hear what you have with your boy ( as I'm sure it has you )

so far Sam hasnt given any noises of in pain , so aprt from some stiffness I had no indication it was his spine

we had Cartophen injections over the years that did help him and the Rimadyl

the ones he on now apparently are similar to Rimadyl but another company makes them

since Sam started these tabs so far no accidents inside

He does have some problems getting in the car , and I help lift him up , then he can get out and run the fence line with dog next door

hope your boy has good results with the tablets rommi

will look up Bowen

settrlvr may I ask where you purchased the heat wrap from

also will take note of pain no more

Quoll - you mentioned scans , may I ask what sort of scans and roughly the cost

I myself have had pinched nerves and they can be painfull

Sam is 13 and I dont think I would like to put him through surgery , as I have read where it is invasive as you said

no lameness as such at the moment showing ( he just whent and jumped on our bed )

according to vets his is in good health , not overweight

I beleive his HD came from his parents , ( so the vet told me years ago , as he was young when first diaganosed ) we dont know his parents as he came from pound , he is a 3 times cross

Rommi I am also the same , I want quality for him

I knew I could count on DOLer's for advice and for what to try and things I can also ask the vet next visit

much appreciated

P.S , sorry for the novel again

[Dogsfevr]

The heat wrap we use is the same as this site.We got ours from the chemist

http://www.lifesolutionsplus.com/the-origi...wrap-p-573.html

It wraps around a 4o kg dog.

[Tara and Sam]

OOOOOh that does look nice , even for my back

I havent noticed them before but will be checking them out

Thanks

[OSoSwift]

he also tested his paw , he placed paw downward and if takes awhile to put his foot right it can mean spine also

he told me this before he did it and one paw didnt come back quicker , he also said that indicates spine

Brutus has one back paw that takes ages, and then it is put back in a gumby can't quite feel where it is way. The 'good' one is delayed, but much better than the first.

rommimum that would break my heart to hear what you have with your boy ( as I'm sure it has you )

so far Sam hasnt given any noises of in pain , so aprt from some stiffness I had no indication it was his spine

Trust me I have cried buckets at times. I went to put him to bed one night after reducing his medication and he had started yelping and the odd scream - I crumpled, couldn't go to bed and was very upset. Prior to his episodes, he had been to the vet and started on Rimadyl and cartophen due to being stiff especially in the mornings.

Brutus has now had 3 pred tablets and he is like a new dog, I just hope he maintains it on a lowered dose. The little bugger barked at 4am woke me up, then raced out the door and off after a bloody fox! I thought when the thrill of the chase wears off you are going to crash-but he hasn't, he has come on short walks and even managed to steal the ball last night. The rimadyl twice daily wasn't even touching his pain. I am hoping when we reduce/stop Tramal he stays pain free.

I hope the time we have left with him be it weeks. months or years are pain free and full of fun for him, that is my heartfelt wish in all of this.

Good luck with your boy

[neatz]

he also tested his paw , he placed paw downward and if takes awhile to put his foot right it can mean spine also

he told me this before he did it and one paw didnt come back quicker , he also said that indicates spine

Brutus has one back paw that takes ages, and then it is put back in a gumby can't quite feel where it is way. The 'good' one is delayed, but much better than the first.

rommimum that would break my heart to hear what you have with your boy ( as I'm sure it has you )

so far Sam hasnt given any noises of in pain , so aprt from some stiffness I had no indication it was his spine

Trust me I have cried buckets at times. I went to put him to bed one night after reducing his medication and he had started yelping and the odd scream - I crumpled, couldn't go to bed and was very upset. Prior to his episodes, he had been to the vet and started on Rimadyl and cartophen due to being stiff especially in the mornings.

Brutus has now had 3 pred tablets and he is like a new dog, I just hope he maintains it on a lowered dose. The little bugger barked at 4am woke me up, then raced out the door and off after a bloody fox! I thought when the thrill of the chase wears off you are going to crash-but he hasn't, he has come on short walks and even managed to steal the ball last night. The rimadyl twice daily wasn't even touching his pain. I am hoping when we reduce/stop Tramal he stays pain free.

I hope the time we have left with him be it weeks. months or years are pain free and full of fun for him, that is my heartfelt wish in all of this.

Good luck with your boy

I went through this a few years ago and it is so heart breaking because in all other ways my dog was still so healthy. I had the bed wetting too, the pain with certain movements etc. If I could offer advice I would say make sure they are on good pain killers, keep them warm, avoid slippery surfaces at all costs (tiled/polished floors) and keep them on the lean side. The pinching that your vet describes T & S is what I was told is felt in the region of the disc prolapse (this is what my dog had, not saying yours has the same thing). I went to see a specialist but the prognosis was not great for my girl as it was quite advanced. Even after corrective surgery the problem can shift to another area of the spine.

My dog was an 11 yo Dobe X and I decided not to proceed with surgery as it would have been painfull & scary for her to be stuck at a vet hospital on her own for so long whilst recovering. The surgery would have cost several thousands of dollars, I think $3-4000 plus but can't remember exactly. (This was 2 years ago)

You really need x-rays to diagnose spinal problems but there are some tell tale signs. What you have already described as well as knuckling, stiffness, wearing out of the top parts of nails (ie dog is dragging it's feet instead of picking them up) are some common signs to look for.

My dogs spinal problem was in her neck so it caused a lot of nerve damage which affected all four of her limbs. Hopefully yours and rommimum's case is not as bad as what my dog had. I totally sypathise with what you are both going through because nobody wants to see their dog in pain. It sounds like you have found a caring vet who is willing to listen and this is a good support for you which you will need down the track.

[OSoSwift]

My dogs spinal problem was in her neck so it caused a lot of nerve damage which affected all four of her limbs. Hopefully yours and rommimum's case is not as bad as what my dog had

No his is a bit further down, front legs are pretty good!

I do sypathise with your girl, My first female Dobe had wobblers and had problems/pain with all four legs and neck

[neatz]

My dogs spinal problem was in her neck so it caused a lot of nerve damage which affected all four of her limbs. Hopefully yours and rommimum's case is not as bad as what my dog had

No his is a bit further down, front legs are pretty good!

I do sypathise with your girl, My first female Dobe had wobblers and had problems/pain with all four legs and neck

Sounds like we have been through the same ordeal. It was a hard time in my life because that dog was so special to me.

To this day, nearly two years later, I secretly shed a tear when we euthanase animals at work (vet clinic).

[Tara and Sam]

I bought one of the Bed Buddy Wrap today from PriceLine

it looks great

only trouble is it says to lay flat on microwave

but my microwave wont allow that

so tried it slightly folded over and so far it it good warmth to it

Sam's paw ( to me ) didnt appear to take more than a few seconds to go back to normal , but the other paw did spring back almost straight away

I got quiet upset the night the Vet told me it was his spine ( on top of the HD and arthritis )

I had some tears then , as I felt that down the track it was now in our hands to make that decision for him

I did a search the other night on the different medications that were mentioned here and what vet gave me , and I was not happy with the side affects of them especially for long time use

apparently can cause liver problems , and need regular blood test twice a year to test for toxicity

I still want to discuss this with the vet

I know Sam is nearly 13 but dont want to add further problems

but if it happens then we tackle that

Since Sam has had his 4 days of tablets ( twice a day , now only need once a day ) there has been no puddles inside , no foul smells

he even wanted to rough play with TAra ( the cocker )

Yes I was also told Sam was in good health , so beign told it was his spine threw me

I did have my suspisions , as he would never turn his body in the laundry , he just backed out of it , but our regular vet anout 2 months ago never suggested the spine ( maybe my gut feeling was right )

the slippery surface in the laundry I also noticed when he tried to get up his back legs slipped under him , so I bought a non slip mat from Bunnings 2 weeks ago and that helps him alot

Sam seemed to flinch when the vet tested his left back , and in between the centre back area , sort of high hip area ( if that makes sense )

we have discussed surgery if it is advised , and we both think we will not have it done , as we dont think Sam would cope with it very well

and we have realised now that Sam's fate will be in our hands to make a decision when the time comes hopefully not for awhile yet

I appreciate the tips on the tell tale signs

I am getting the heads up of what to look for and be more aware off

Sam's front legs so far still seem to appear good

I am going to call the vet back out when these tablets are finished and speak to him more , asking about scans / xrays etc

another novel from me

but great to have advice from those who have similar with their own and seen with other dogs

fingers crossed they all have pain free and have quality time now

[OSoSwift]

WE are left with little choice re drugs and side effects and if we want him on them. Without them he would have to be out down, he is intoo much agony. We are hoping to get him stabilised on a lower doses with less potential side effects, we will see. We are now definately going for quality not quantity, I just hope the quantity is good as well.

Good to see Sam is going so well, our boy is on the high doses of drugs, in two days I start to wean him down!

[neatz]

Speak to the vet you trust the most and discuss your concerns. All medications have possible side effects and some work better than others at controlling pain. I chose quality of life over quantity for my dog too. In the end you will do what is best for you and your dog.